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English-Rose |
Katherine Howard
Sep 24 2009, 1:02 PM EDT
Katherine Howard has to be my favourite wife of Henry VIII, her story is so fascinating and I think she had such a colourful, lively character. Her tragic end is truly heartbreaking, and she was only a typical, innocent teenage girl doing what her heart desired. I can totally understand how trapped she must have felt in her marriage, for she had an obese, bad tempered old monster for a husband, whilst there were attractive, virile young men all around her which she had to resist. Poor Katherine, I have so much respect and admiration for this incredible young woman who faced her horrific end with so much dignity and courage. Go Kitty! :)
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CarolineZ |
1. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 24 2009, 4:37 PM EDT
"Katherine Howard has to be my favourite wife of Henry VIII, her story is so fascinating and I think she had such a colourful, lively character. Her tragic end is truly heartbreaking, and she was only a typical, innocent teenage girl doing what her heart desired. I can totally understand how trapped she must have felt in her marriage, for she had an obese, bad tempered old monster for a husband, whilst there were attractive, virile young men all around her which she had to resist. Poor Katherine, I have so much respect and admiration for this incredible young woman who faced her horrific end with so much dignity and courage. Go Kitty! :) "Yes, she faced her end on the day of execution with much more dignity and courage than I would have done. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
lettice |
2. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 24 2009, 9:57 PM EDT
"Yes, she faced her end on the day of execution with much more dignity and courage than I would have done."True about her execution and she certainly didn't have to die. Banishment would have been enough for fooling around, however, in those days it was treason & punishable by death. I don't really admire KH; I think she was very foolish, but it was secondary to her lack of guidance while living with the Dowager Duchess.Grown men took advantage of her. Today we would call it statutory rape. Common sense should have dictated after she married the King. What was she thinking? Do you find this valuable? |
Conyle |
3. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 24 2009, 10:13 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 24 2009, 10:14 PM EDT
"True about her execution and she certainly didn't have to die. Banishment would have been enough for fooling around, however, in those days it was treason & punishable by death.I think she just got caught up in things. And when one is young, it's not uncommon to feel that you are invincible. I know there are many who say that she should have learned from what happened to her cousin; Anne. And of course, that's true and probably would have saved her life. But how many of us made stupid mistakes when we were young and in love (as she may have been with Culpepper), and just didn't listen to reason and thought that it would just last and last and all would be well because we were young and in love? Difference is, none of us were living and Tudor England and married to H8. We lived through our misguided youth. Do you find this valuable? |
Tzakaria1 |
4. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 8:30 AM EDT
"Katherine Howard has to be my favourite wife of Henry VIII, her story is so fascinating and I think she had such a colourful, lively character. Her tragic end is truly heartbreaking, and she was only a typical, innocent teenage girl doing what her heart desired. I can totally understand how trapped she must have felt in her marriage, for she had an obese, bad tempered old monster for a husband, whilst there were attractive, virile young men all around her which she had to resist. Poor Katherine, I have so much respect and admiration for this incredible young woman who faced her horrific end with so much dignity and courage. Go Kitty! :) "She wasn't my favorite, but I do sympathize with her. I don't think she had a chance to really live out her childhood, which ultimately led to her down fall. =[ 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
amore_angel |
5. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 9:36 AM EDT
I feel sorry for her, i really do. She was a child flung into the deep, dark and dangerous court where factions would do anything to bring the others down. She was in way out of her depth and her family didn't care about her at all. But i do get annoyed with her being so naive and silly. I know some people don't think she cheated on Henry but she did enough to arouse suspicion (letters, private meetings). She should have known that this wasn't queenly behaviour and it could get her into trouble. But she was very dignified after her little corridor outburst. Believe me i would have been hysterical if it was my execution. Just imagine Emily Blunt's Katherine in Henry VIII and how she freaks out at the last minute and is forced down on the block, that would have been me!
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Reggie19 |
6. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 9:56 AM EDT
"I think she just got caught up in things. And when one is young, it's not uncommon to feel that you are invincible. I know there are many who say that she should have learned from what happened to her cousin; Anne. And of course, that's true and probably would have saved her life. But how many of us made stupid mistakes when we were young and in love (as she may have been with Culpepper), and just didn't listen to reason and thought that it would just last and last and all would be well because we were young and in love? Difference is, none of us were living and Tudor England and married to H8. We lived through our misguided youth. "So true Conyle, and we barely even learn from our own mistakes (i just about manage!), never mind the mistakes of others! Do you find this valuable? |
annebqueen |
7. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 2:38 PM EDT
"So true Conyle, and we barely even learn from our own mistakes (i just about manage!), never mind the mistakes of others!"I couldn't agree more! I know when i was younger i definitely felt invincible. Like nothing bad would ever happen. Then reality sets in and like Brandon said to Henry-- we have lost our youth. Wow that sounds depressing ! It's not so bad though! LoL Do you find this valuable? |
Brooke9/7 |
8. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 3:07 PM EDT
"Katherine Howard has to be my favourite wife of Henry VIII, her story is so fascinating and I think she had such a colourful, lively character. Her tragic end is truly heartbreaking, and she was only a typical, innocent teenage girl doing what her heart desired. I can totally understand how trapped she must have felt in her marriage, for she had an obese, bad tempered old monster for a husband, whilst there were attractive, virile young men all around her which she had to resist. Poor Katherine, I have so much respect and admiration for this incredible young woman who faced her horrific end with so much dignity and courage. Go Kitty! :) "I agree. To me, she is one of the most intriguing of Henry's wives. She became his consort for quite different reasons than the others; mainly for his deep love and desire and to bear a "spare heir" (as someone so nicely put it on this wiki the other day!). She was innundated by gifts and placed in the finest surroundings; who wouldn't be utterly swept off her feet, at first? Henry was obviously kindly and loving toward her person. I'm sure he was civil enough, especially during the fulfillment of their...matrimonial duties It is quite possible that she loved him in a "Beauty & the Beast" fashion. Maybe just a tiny bit! I know she was in awe of him. It is nice to know with some certainty that she made great use of her charms for good as well; he was very happy when he was with her. Her vivacity was a tonic for his soul. Do you find this valuable? |
Perfectgal |
9. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 25 2009, 5:18 PM EDT
I like her.....its that vulnarbility inside her where she is just happy having no worries in the world. When I was young I thought nothing could touch me. But Nowadays it still does actually happen..........older men like the idea of a young female in their lives or even on the side.... I loved the end of episode 8 when she said Your Majesity! and giggles!
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juliana-angela |
10. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 26 2009, 2:54 AM EDT
I'm torn between irritation and sympathy with her. She was very silly and indiscreet, even if she didn't commit adultery and she should have known better, given Henry's history with his previous wives. It was a brutal age and people had to grow up fast, she was an adult by sixteenth century standards.But although far from stupid, she wasn't as intelligent as the other wives, her upbringing hadn't prepared her for Court life and she was just way out of her depth. It didn't help that people who knew about her past blackmailed her into giving them jobs and money and her family were desperate to cover things up. She might have done better to have 'fessed up to Henry, but hindsight is a great thing and she was young and scared. Do you find this valuable? |
BoleynGirl |
11. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 26 2009, 9:04 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 26 2009, 9:05 AM EDT
"Katherine Howard has to be my favourite wife of Henry VIII, her story is so fascinating and I think she had such a colourful, lively character. Her tragic end is truly heartbreaking, and she was only a typical, innocent teenage girl doing what her heart desired. I can totally understand how trapped she must have felt in her marriage, for she had an obese, bad tempered old monster for a husband, whilst there were attractive, virile young men all around her which she had to resist. Poor Katherine, I have so much respect and admiration for this incredible young woman who faced her horrific end with so much dignity and courage. Go Kitty! :) "She is not my favorite....But I like her....I agree with you in every way..Poor Girl...She didn't deserve to die......!! Do you find this valuable? |
KingHenryVIII |
12. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 27 2009, 8:05 AM EDT
I would not feel to much pity for her; she was not as foolish as you may think. In fact she was clever and stupid the same. All she wanted in the end was fame and be a "heroine" in some ways and especially Queen! She played the stubborn when I arranged for her to just leave London and England and get rid of her title; she was refusing and the one that wanted to die the death she had, just to be historically related with me as another wife "I have killed" and as a Queen until the end. She was not innocent in any way and not to be pitied. Do you find this valuable? |
Elliemental |
13. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 27 2009, 10:36 AM EDT
Its all very well saying that Katherine Howard should`ve learned from the fate of her cousin, Anne Boleyn, but Katherine would`ve been quite young when it happened, and I doubt it really registered with her. Also, Anne Boleyn became persona non gratis after her execution, so I doubt anyone would`ve dared mention Anne Boleyn to Katherine. She was just so immature, so unsuitable for the station that she was expected to occupy and none of it was her fault. I just pity her, more than any thing else.
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CarolineZ |
14. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 29 2009, 1:42 PM EDT
""..... She might have done better to have 'fessed up to Henry, but hindsight is a great thing and she was young and scared.""I couldn't help giggling when I read this! Granted, things couldn't have turned out any worse for her if she had "fessed up to Henry" but I can't imagine that things would have gone well for her! I'm wincing just thinking about his reaction if she told him! Do you find this valuable? |
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juliana-angela |
15. RE: Katherine Howard
Sep 29 2009, 2:55 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 29 2009, 2:57 PM EDT
I probably didn't explain that very well. I think that if she had told Henry a bit about her pre-marital past once she was queen, she might have stopped the chain of events that led to her downfall. That was the first thing that Henry found out about, and he seemed willing to excuse it on the basis of her youth and upbringing - he was obviously madly in love with her. Then the investigation brought to light her post-marital behaviour with Culpepper and there was no way that Henry could excuse that. If Henry had already known about Mannix and Dereham, he wouldn't have had to investigate at all.Then again, she had been so indiscreet about Culpepper that it was bound to have come out sooner or later, so she was probably doomed from the time that she started her post-marital secret meetings. Do you find this valuable? |
s.rochie |
16. RE: Katherine Howard
Oct 1 2009, 10:34 AM EDT
Culpeper was, don't forget, physician to the King. It was this important position of power that constituted the ultimate potential treason of all - that the Queen's lover (perhaps) had the power of life or death over the king in terms of the medication, or lack of it, that he would have administered. That would have been viewed as a dreadful security risk. Ultimately, it could have been this that so outraged the king and his advisers.
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MsSquirrly |
17. RE: Katherine Howard
Oct 1 2009, 10:58 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 1 2009, 11:18 AM EDT
"Culpeper was, don't forget, physician to the King. It was this important position of power that constituted the ultimate potential treason of all - that the Queen's lover (perhaps) had the power of life or death over the king in terms of the medication, or lack of it, that he would have administered. That would have been viewed as a dreadful security risk. Ultimately, it could have been this that so outraged the king and his advisers."Where did you read that Culpepper was the King's physician? He was only 27 years old and as far as I have read was only called "a courtier" and I have never read anything about a Dr. Culpepper attending the King. If you have the source I would gladly add his name to the list of physicians on the "Medicine in the Tudors" page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/MEDICINE+in+the+Tudors Do you find this valuable? |
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s.rochie |
18. RE: Katherine Howard
Oct 1 2009, 2:39 PM EDT
"Where did you read that Culpepper was the King's physician? He was only 27 years old and as far as I have read was only called "a courtier" and I have never read anything about a Dr. Culpepper attending the King."Thank you, MsSquirrly. You are absolutely correct. Thomas is not recorded anywhere as being a physician. I think I must have somehow got him mixed up with Nicholas Culpeper (1616–1654), English botanist, herbalist and physician. However, Thomas Culpeper was a gentleman to the King's Privy Chamber, giving him intimate access to the king. As this role involved dressing and undressing Henry and often sleeping in his bedchamber, some have speculated that Thomas also would have tended the king's ulcerated leg, dressing the wound and seeing that the physician's orders were carried out. I think there is a scene in the movie 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII' starring Keith Michell where the young Culpeper is shown doing this. However, you would be quite right in saying that none of this is good enough as a source. It is still a role that would have made his alleged interference with the Queen all the more concerning from the point of security and trust. So maybe there is still something to be salvaged from what I said earlier. Moreover, by way of continuing to clutch at straws, I did find reference to a work of children’s fiction called 'The Sorcerer's Servant' the synopsis for which is: 'Toby Greenleaf enjoys working for the mysterious Doctor Ezekiel Culpepper, physician to King Henry VIII. But when his master is accused of sorcery and suddenly disappears, Toby is left with only a painting and a riddle to solve.' Oh well ... perhaps not. Thank you again. Do you find this valuable? |
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juliana-angela |
19. RE: Katherine Howard
Oct 2 2009, 4:40 PM EDT
Katherine was clearly a 'no go' area for anyone to fool around with but I think that you are right in suggesting that Henry might well have seen Culpepper as a particular threat. It was clear by then that Henry wasn't going to last that much longer, and for an ambitious courtier, a widowed Katherine would have been a wife well worth having. Henry might have been paranoid enough to suspect that the two of them were plotting to hasten his demise so that they could marry and take power.
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