Location: Cardinal Thomas Wolsey

Discussion: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?Reported This is a featured thread

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mrsgalloway
mrsgalloway
Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 8:46 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 8:46 AM EDT
In The Tudors season one, Wolsey slits his own throat, did this really happen? If so, he can not of been that religious, as he surely must of known it is a sin to takes ones own life. 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
1. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 9:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 9:04 AM EDT
"In The Tudors season one, Wolsey slits his own throat, did this really happen? If so, he can not of been that religious, as he surely must of known it is a sin to takes ones own life."
Wolsey did not take his own life; he died at Sheffield of a stomach complaint that had a sudden onset. Do you find this valuable?    
mrsgalloway
mrsgalloway
2. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 9:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 9:19 AM EDT
Thank you for clearing that up, I thought I has not heard before of Wolsey taking his own life. Do you find this valuable?    
MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
3. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 9:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 9:30 AM EDT
There is a primary source about Wolsey's Fall you can read online written by Edward Hall here : http://englishhistory.net/tudor/priwols1.html

He actually says "when the cardinal saw the captain of the guard he was much astonished and shortly became ill, for he foresaw some great trouble, and for that reason men said he willingly took so much strong purgative that his constitution could not bear it.....on 27 November, where through weakness caused by purgatives and vomiting he died the second night following..."

So he intimates that Wolsey did take his own life ...but not by slitting his own throat as the series dramatically portrayed but by taking purgatives. Do you find this valuable?    
angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
4. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 9:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 10:06 AM EDT
"There is a primary source about Wolsey's Fall you can read online written by Edward Hall here : http://englishhistory.net/tudor/priwols1.html

He actually says "when the cardinal saw the captain of the guard he was much astonished and shortly became ill, for he foresaw some great trouble, and for that reason men said he willingly took so much strong purgative that his constitution could not bear it.....on 27 November, where through weakness caused by purgatives and vomiting he died the second night following..."

So he intimates that Wolsey did take his own life ...but not by slitting his own throat as the series dramatically portrayed but by taking purgatives."
I am looking at Starkey's description of Wolsey's end, for which he cites Cavendish, Wolsey's servant. He describes Wolsey falling ill while eating pears. He was prescribed a potion by the apothecary that 'enabled him to break wind upward' ( I assume that means belching), but that the relief was temporary. He developed diarrhea which became acute.By the time Sir Edward Kingston, Lieutenant of the Tower, arrived with a detachment to take him to the Tower, he was very weak. Although he struggled on as far as Leicester, he could go no further, and died shortly after. It does not sound as though Wolsey committed suicide. It does sound like he may have been poisoned. Do you find this valuable?    
mrsgalloway
mrsgalloway
5. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 10:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 10:15 AM EDT
We may have a conspiracy theory here, lol, I wonder....... Do you find this valuable?    
CarolineZ
CarolineZ
6. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 1:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 1:29 PM EDT
"In The Tudors season one, Wolsey slits his own throat, did this really happen? If so, he can not of been that religious, as he surely must of known it is a sin to takes ones own life."
At that time it was certainly considered a sin to take ones own life, and a person who committed suicide could not be buried in consecrated ground.

The Catholic Church now understands that mental illness clouds a person's judgment and today a person who took his own life could be buried in a Catholic cemetary.

Interestingly, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran minister who was executed by the Nazis offered the opinion that if a person committed suicide, that person should not be judged solely by that one act but by the totality of his life.

Do you find this valuable?    
mrsgalloway
mrsgalloway
7. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 2:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 2:38 PM EDT
I did not know that the Catholic church had changed this, it is good that a person is allowed to be buried in consecrated ground now, and I agree with the Lutheran minister, that a person should be judged by the totality of their lives, thank you for your imput. Do you find this valuable?    
lettice
lettice
8. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 5:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 5:09 PM EDT
"At that time it was certainly considered a sin to take ones own life, and a person who committed suicide could not be buried in consecrated ground.

The Catholic Church now understands that mental illness clouds a person's judgment and today a person who took his own life could be buried in a Catholic cemetary.

Interestingly, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran minister who was executed by the Nazis offered the opinion that if a person committed suicide, that person should not be judged solely by that one act but by the totality of his life.

"
So the Catholic church recognizes mental illness. It's a paradox, however, that they still perform exorcisims.
If they allow a person who committed suicide to be buried in a Catholic cemetary, to me, that's progress. Do you find this valuable?    
angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
9. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 5:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 5:24 PM EDT
"At that time it was certainly considered a sin to take ones own life, and a person who committed suicide could not be buried in consecrated ground.

The Catholic Church now understands that mental illness clouds a person's judgment and today a person who took his own life could be buried in a Catholic cemetary.

Interestingly, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran minister who was executed by the Nazis offered the opinion that if a person committed suicide, that person should not be judged solely by that one act but by the totality of his life.

"
I agree, and for a cardinal, it would have been really unlikely. Offhand, I can't think of any prominent person of that time who committed suicide. Religious beliefs being what they were, who would consign him or herself to hell? Do you find this valuable?    
s.rochie
s.rochie
10. RE: Did Wolsey Really Slit His Own Throat?
Jul 7 2009, 5:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2009, 5:49 PM EDT
It is probable that demonic possession was the medieval version of mental illness. So perhaps it is not such a paradox that the Catholic Church should recognise mental illness now in our own times, while still keeping the ritual of exorcism. Different language, that's all. A lot of modern psychology is based on the patient being able to 'confront their unconscious demons' so to speak and recognise past trauma etc. and bring it to the surface.
SR Do you find this valuable?