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Discussion: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.Reported This is a featured thread

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LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
20. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 28 2009, 2:27 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 28 2009, 2:27 AM EDT
"No, because other malcontents would have still used Jane as the figurehead for their rebellions. The only way to be sure that this would not happen, as awful as it seems to us, was to remove Jane. "
I understand this, but I just think most people back then made wrong dissions, I don't think Jane should have been killed. Even though in their eyes she was a threat to Mary's throne, Jane was only at the age of 15/16, close to my age so I feel for her.
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LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
21. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 28 2009, 2:33 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 28 2009, 2:33 AM EDT
"I was always under the impression that Mary didn't want to have Jane killed because she originally spared her but had no choice but to execute her when there was another rebellion in her name, and that Elizabeth did want Mary of Scots killed but she was just frightened of what would happen if she did because she was a legitimate queen and all the Catholic nations would come against her. Am i misinformed about Elizabeth?"
Agreed. I don't think you are misinformed about Elizabeth, she loved Mary, she was her family, but like Jane was to Mary Tudor, Mary of Scots was a treat to Elizabeths throne. So Elizabeth signed Marys death notice, while the extercution was under way Elizabeth was running around trying to stop it, but she failed, someone correct me if I am wrong, I don't know much Elizabeth when she ruled.
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
22. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 28 2009, 3:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 28 2009, 3:59 AM EDT
"I understand this, but I just think most people back then made wrong dissions, I don't think Jane should have been killed. Even though in their eyes she was a threat to Mary's throne, Jane was only at the age of 15/16, close to my age so I feel for her."
I always felt bad for Jane, too. She didn't want the throne, knew she was being forced to usurp it from the lawful successor, but had no recourse against her parents and the Dudleys. It is a shame she could not have been sent out of the country and spared her horrendous death. I'm happy we live in more civilized times. Unfortunately in those times, a child could be hanged for stealing a piece of bread, and it happened to children even younger than poor Jane. I understand your sympathy for a girl so close to your own age and blameless, really.
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LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
LadyJaneGrey.Faithxx
23. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 5:21 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 5:21 AM EDT
"I always felt bad for Jane, too. She didn't want the throne, knew she was being forced to usurp it from the lawful successor, but had no recourse against her parents and the Dudleys. It is a shame she could not have been sent out of the country and spared her horrendous death. I'm happy we live in more civilized times. Unfortunately in those times, a child could be hanged for stealing a piece of bread, and it happened to children even younger than poor Jane. I understand your sympathy for a girl so close to your own age and blameless, really."
yes! thankyou. I really do feel for jane. I wish to that she could have been sent out to the country and be spared that death. Times back then were so harsh. I am happy we hardly have the death sentance anymore, I understand some countrys still have it, only for the serious of crimes but I am happy it is not done everyday for people of the public to watch for pleasure. Although all the historys lives back then, I think I am haapy I was born in these times.
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s.rochie
s.rochie
24. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 6:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 30 2009, 3:41 AM EDT
"Agreed. I don't think you are misinformed about Elizabeth, she loved Mary, she was her family, but like Jane was to Mary Tudor, Mary of Scots was a treat to Elizabeths throne. So Elizabeth signed Marys death notice, while the extercution was under way Elizabeth was running around trying to stop it, but she failed, someone correct me if I am wrong, I don't know much Elizabeth when she ruled."
Elizabeth signed the death warrant, but others carried it out without her knowledge. She was simply furious when she found out. At least that was the 'spin' put on it at the time - which tended to take some of the blame away from her. She seemed to be in a state of denial about the prospect - the execution of an anointed Queen was considered a big step to take, a sin in fact. It would also have reminded her of her own mother and her execution. She didn't want it to happen, but probably eventually realised that for the safety of the realm it had to happen sometime. Her ministers realised this, and acted.
SR
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
25. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 6:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 6:52 AM EDT
"Elizabeth signed the death warrant, but others carried it out without her knowledge. She did try to stop it - she was simply furious when she found out. At least that was the 'spit' put on it at the time - which tended to take some of the blame away from her. She seemed to be in a state of denial about the prospect - the execution of an anointed Queen was considered a big step to take, a sin in fact. It would also have reminded her of her own mother and her execution. She didn't want it to happen, but probably eventually realised that for the safety of the realm it had to happen sometime. Her ministers realised this, and acted.
SR"
Yes, it was a big step to execute another monarch. Royalty had to be seen to support each other. It opened up the possiblity that Elizabeth herself could be similarly treated if the circumstances were different. That, too was a part of her reluctance to execute Mary of Scotland.
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s.rochie
s.rochie
26. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 8:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 8:18 AM EDT
"Yes, it was a big step to execute another monarch. Royalty had to be seen to support each other. It opened up the possiblity that Elizabeth herself could be similarly treated if the circumstances were different. That, too was a part of her reluctance to execute Mary of Scotland. "
Yes, to set such a precedent. Who knows, it might even have paved the way for Charles I.
SR
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CarolineZ
CarolineZ
27. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 6:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 6:24 PM EDT
"Yes, to set such a precedent. Who knows, it might even have paved the way for Charles I.
SR"
It does seem strange that both grandmother (MQOS) and grandson (Charles I) were beheaded! I read a good book years ago about the trial of Charles I called "A Coffin for King Charles." It was a non-fiction book.
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corebis3
28. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 10:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 10:03 PM EDT
Did Lady Jane have a choice to say No, she would not be queen ? She was named as successor by the son Edward that took over on the death of Henry. I recently saw the portrait of the beheading of Lady Jane Grey in London. What a beautiful painting of a very sad event.

I suppose that Mary had her beheaded for some revenge on the way she and her mother were treated .And to try and bring England back to being Catholic.
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Conyle
Conyle
29. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 10:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 10:30 PM EDT
"

I suppose that Mary had her beheaded for some revenge on the way she and her mother were treated .And to try and bring England back to being Catholic."
Mary had Jane killed because there was yet another foiled plot organized at least in part by Jane's father to put Jane back on the throne, and Spain was insisting on it, saying that Phillip would not come to England to marry Mary as long as Jane lived and continued to be a threat.
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
30. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 10:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 10:54 PM EDT
"Did Lady Jane have a choice to say No, she would not be queen ? She was named as successor by the son Edward that took over on the death of Henry. I recently saw the portrait of the beheading of Lady Jane Grey in London. What a beautiful painting of a very sad event.

I suppose that Mary had her beheaded for some revenge on the way she and her mother were treated .And to try and bring England back to being Catholic."
Jane Grey was completely in the power of her parents and the Dudleys who were the parents of her husband. Jane's mother, Frances Grey, was a cruel abusive parent and beat her often to 'harden' her. Her father-in-law, the Duke of Northumberland either coerced or persuaded Edward on his deathbed to bypass the succession arranged by Henry VIII naming his daughters, Mary and Elizabeth in turn to succeed if Edward died without issue, and name Jane, his daughter-in-law, the granddaughter of Henry's sister Mary, as Queen. Although Jane was unwilling, she had no choice. When it became obvious that Mary had popular support and would claim her throne, her parents left Jane to her fate. I haven't read about Jane for years, but I remember reading that she was beaten by her mother and forced to accept the marriage to Guildford Dudley. Northumberland, Jane, her father Suffolk, and Guildford all went to the scaffold.
That poor child had a bad situation all around. Her mother escaped the consequences and married her chamberlain a short time after her husband, Suffolk, was executed.
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corebis3
31. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 29 2009, 11:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 29 2009, 11:33 PM EDT
So what this shows is that all woman were just chatels of the men of the family, each had to do whatever they were told, even at the expence of their own life. Do you find this valuable?    
angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
32. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 30 2009, 3:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 30 2009, 3:02 AM EDT
"So what this shows is that all woman were just chatels of the men of the family, each had to do whatever they were told, even at the expence of their own life."
In most cases, unfortunately, yes.
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s.rochie
s.rochie
33. RE: Beheading of lady Jane Grey.
Jun 30 2009, 3:47 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 30 2009, 3:47 AM EDT
"Jane Grey was completely in the power of her parents and the Dudleys who were the parents of her husband. Jane's mother, Frances Grey, was a cruel abusive parent and beat her often to 'harden' her. Her father-in-law, the Duke of Northumberland either coerced or persuaded Edward on his deathbed to bypass the succession arranged by Henry VIII naming his daughters, Mary and Elizabeth in turn to succeed if Edward died without issue, and name Jane, his daughter-in-law, the granddaughter of Henry's sister Mary, as Queen. Although Jane was unwilling, she had no choice. When it became obvious that Mary had popular support and would claim her throne, her parents left Jane to her fate. I haven't read about Jane for years, but I remember reading that she was beaten by her mother and forced to accept the marriage to Guildford Dudley. Northumberland, Jane, her father Suffolk, and Guildford all went to the scaffold.
That poor child had a bad situation all around. Her mother escaped the consequences and married her chamberlain a short time after her husband, Suffolk, was executed. "
I'm glad to read such a balanced and fair assessment. It is amazing how people still want to blame Edward for what happened - even to this day. A 15 year old boy suffering in the final stages of consumption, on his death bed and bullied by one of the most ruthless men in Tudor History - and they say it was his fault! No way.
SR
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