Location: King Henry VIII's report card

Discussion: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTHReported This is a featured thread

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LadyJane1961
MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 8:24 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 8:24 AM EDT
HENRY IS MISUNDERSTOOD IN OUR WORLD. WE SHOULD THINK LIKE HE DID IN HIS TIME.HE WAS ALWAYS WORRIED THAT SOME COUNTRY OR SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE HIS CROWN. PEOPLE CALL HIM A TYRANT, I CALL HIM A FIGHTER. EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE IN SOME OF THE THINGS HE HAVE DONE, I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID THEM..WE DONT UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS WERE LIKE BACK THEM. WE WERENT THERE . GIVE THIS MAN THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT. YES HE IS MY IDOL BECAUSE HE GAVE US HISTORY THAT WE ENJOY AND WITHOUT HIM THERE WILL BE NO TUDOR HISTORY/ 17  out of 21 found this valuable. Do you?    
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Reggie19
Reggie19
1. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 9:47 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 9:47 AM EDT
If Henry married for the sake of politics and not for love, he would have been a far more successful King, he was the only monarch at that time in history that married women he loved (for a time anyway!) and lusted after (until he married them!), if he had followed the example of Charles the Emperor of Spain, and Francis I of France, he would have been far more prosperous. However, he didn't, and a lot of the good decisions he made are overlooked because of his six wives, two of which were beheaded, and his daughters, both were emotionally scarred for life due to the decisions their father made, and the disposals of both their mothers, Henry's decision yet again, frankly i'm surprised he isn't referred to as a dictator, but then again, different time i suppose. This is as best a defense as i can give for Henry! 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
karenofbethany
karenofbethany
2. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 9:48 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 9:48 AM EDT
"HENRY IS MISUNDERSTOOD IN OUR WORLD. WE SHOULD THINK LIKE HE DID IN HIS TIME.HE WAS ALWAYS WORRIED THAT SOME COUNTRY OR SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE HIS CROWN. PEOPLE CALL HIM A TYRANT, I CALL HIM A FIGHTER. EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE IN SOME OF THE THINGS HE HAVE DONE, I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID THEM..WE DONT UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS WERE LIKE BACK THEM. WE WERENT THERE . GIVE THIS MAN THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT. YES HE IS MY IDOL BECAUSE HE GAVE US HISTORY THAT WE ENJOY AND WITHOUT HIM THERE WILL BE NO TUDOR HISTORY/"
What can I say? Love ya! Yay passion! XO p.s. Anne of Cleves - is she your female idol? She is way up there with me...
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karenofbethany
karenofbethany
3. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 9:51 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 9:51 AM EDT
"If Henry married for the sake of politics and not for love, he would have been a far more successful King, he was the only monarch at that time in history that married women he loved (for a time anyway!) and lusted after (until he married them!), if he had followed the example of Charles the Emperor of Spain, and Francis I of France, he would have been far more prosperous. However, he didn't, and a lot of the good decisions he made are overlooked because of his six wives, two of which were beheaded, and his daughters, both were emotionally scarred for life due to the decisions their father made, and the disposals of both their mothers, Henry's decision yet again, frankly i'm surprised he isn't referred to as a dictator, but then again, different time i suppose. This is as best a defense as i can give for Henry!"
I think he is not classified as a dictator because he did not have an obvious political agenda to kill off a specific population of people (like a Stalin or Hitler), that he "dictated" his policy in a more subtle sense - mostly allowing his advisors to carry out things and then executing them later, and finally that his marriages overshadowed his monarchy to the extent that he is remembered chiefly as the fat old man who killed (Anne Boleyn).
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LadyJane1961
4. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 10:02 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 10:02 AM EDT
"What can I say? Love ya! Yay passion! XO p.s. Anne of Cleves - is she your female idol? She is way up there with me..."
I LOVE ANN OF CLEEVES BECAUSE SHE GOT ONE UP FROM HENRY SHE WAS THE WINNER OUT ALL OF HIS WIVES. SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH HER HEAD ON HER SHOULDERS ALSO SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH MONEY AND HOUSES. AND MOST OF ALL SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH RESPECT. WITH ALL THE HEARTACHE AND MISERY AT THE END HENRY LIKED HER AND ALSO HIS CHILDREN ADORED HER.
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karenofbethany
karenofbethany
5. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 10:48 AM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 10:48 AM EDT
"I LOVE ANN OF CLEEVES BECAUSE SHE GOT ONE UP FROM HENRY SHE WAS THE WINNER OUT ALL OF HIS WIVES. SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH HER HEAD ON HER SHOULDERS ALSO SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH MONEY AND HOUSES. AND MOST OF ALL SHE CAME OUT OF THE MARRIAGE WITH RESPECT. WITH ALL THE HEARTACHE AND MISERY AT THE END HENRY LIKED HER AND ALSO HIS CHILDREN ADORED HER."
Right on. She outlived him, too.
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Eternity123
Eternity123
6. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 1:06 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 1:14 PM EDT
"HENRY IS MISUNDERSTOOD IN OUR WORLD. WE SHOULD THINK LIKE HE DID IN HIS TIME.HE WAS ALWAYS WORRIED THAT SOME COUNTRY OR SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE HIS CROWN. PEOPLE CALL HIM A TYRANT, I CALL HIM A FIGHTER. EVEN THOUGH I DISAGREE IN SOME OF THE THINGS HE HAVE DONE, I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID THEM..WE DONT UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS WERE LIKE BACK THEM. WE WERENT THERE . GIVE THIS MAN THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT. "
I agree with you on that one LadyJane. Especially not understanding how things were like back then; and NO that is not an excuse before it's said. But obviously I still don't agree with some of the things he did.
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
7. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 1:57 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 1:59 PM EDT
All I have to say to this, think about his time period is, that no other king not Francis or Charles murdered their wives. Only other monarch I can think who did that is Ivan the Terrible. So even then it was not the norm nor accepted. That's all Im done, continue the Henry Love 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
lettice
lettice
8. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:12 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:12 PM EDT
"I agree with you on that one LadyJane. Especially not understanding how things were like back then; and NO that is not an excuse before it's said. But obviously I still don't agree with some of the things he did. "
I can't understand or excuse what he did. IMO, he was a brutal tyrant even for the times. His daughter was not like him.
I will give Henry credit for being one of the most well known Kings. He's famous for being infamous. Like Chapuys said last season: "I have no doubt that your majesty's reign will be remembered." (unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons).
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Eternity123
Eternity123
9. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:17 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:51 PM EDT
"I can't understand or excuse what he did. IMO, he was a brutal tyrant even for the times. His daughter was not like him.
I will give Henry credit for being one of the most well known Kings. He's famous for being infamous. Like Chapuys said last season: "I have no doubt that your majesty's reign will be remembered." (unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons)."
Yes I can understand that and i'm not excusing him for the terrible things he has done. But I just don't see it as black & white as some and cannot simply call him all the names under the sun; same with some of the other figures. Like Reggie said some of the "good decisions he made are overlooked because of his six wives"....
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Hever
Hever
10. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:33 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:33 PM EDT
"If Henry married for the sake of politics and not for love, he would have been a far more successful King, he was the only monarch at that time in history that married women he loved (for a time anyway!) and lusted after (until he married them!), if he had followed the example of Charles the Emperor of Spain, and Francis I of France, he would have been far more prosperous. However, he didn't, and a lot of the good decisions he made are overlooked because of his six wives, two of which were beheaded, and his daughters, both were emotionally scarred for life due to the decisions their father made, and the disposals of both their mothers, Henry's decision yet again, frankly i'm surprised he isn't referred to as a dictator, but then again, different time i suppose. This is as best a defense as i can give for Henry!"
Can't agree with calling Henry a dictator, not many people can be equal in that respect. Hitler was a whole different ball game.
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Hever
Hever
11. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:34 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:34 PM EDT
"What can I say? Love ya! Yay passion! XO p.s. Anne of Cleves - is she your female idol? She is way up there with me..."
LOL
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Hever
Hever
12. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:36 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:36 PM EDT
"All I have to say to this, think about his time period is, that no other king not Francis or Charles murdered their wives. Only other monarch I can think who did that is Ivan the Terrible. So even then it was not the norm nor accepted. That's all Im done, continue the Henry Love"
Don't you have a few exs you would like to do away with? Can you honestly say that given the power you wouldn't do the same?
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
13. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 2:43 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 2:43 PM EDT
No I wouldnt, because killing is wrong. And on top of that I hate psycho girlfriends. I was listening to people on the radio talking about psycho girlfriends who get crazy when their boyfriends do somethng they dont like or break up with them.
And again there were people in his own time who had the power he had but still did not do what he did.
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Reggie19
Reggie19
14. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 5:08 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 5:08 PM EDT
"Can't agree with calling Henry a dictator, not many people can be equal in that respect. Hitler was a whole different ball game."
I phrased that badly alright, as KOB said above, he dictated some of his decisions, not that he was a dictator, i think that's what she said anyway *looks upward* !
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
15. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 6:32 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 6:32 PM EDT
"I can't understand or excuse what he did. IMO, he was a brutal tyrant even for the times. His daughter was not like him.
I will give Henry credit for being one of the most well known Kings. He's famous for being infamous. Like Chapuys said last season: "I have no doubt that your majesty's reign will be remembered." (unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons)."
Yes, and many historians do not consider him a great king. He was bequeathed a full treasury by his father; it was empty when he died. He left the country poorer and in religious turmoil, caused by nothing more than his desire to have his will at any cost, disregarding the good of the nation. He abused his wives and daughters unmercifully, and sent many innocent people to the scaffold. Henry VIII was anything but a hero.
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
16. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 6:55 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 6:55 PM EDT
I think most historians think he had his good points....even the encyclopedia brittannica says :

Henry VIII built upon the innovations instituted by his father. The break with Rome, coupled with an increase in governmental bureaucracy, led to the royal supremacy that would last until the execution of Charles I and the establishment of the Commonwealth one hundred years after Henry's death. Henry was beloved by his subjects, facing only one major insurrection, the Pilgrimage of Grace, enacted by the northernmost counties in retaliation to the break with Rome and the poor economic state of the region. History remembers Henry in much the same way as Piero Pasqualigo, a Venetian ambassador: "... he is in every respect a most accomplished prince."

Everyone has their opinions :)
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Hever
Hever
17. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 7:28 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 7:28 PM EDT
"Yes, and many historians do not consider him a great king. He was bequeathed a full treasury by his father; it was empty when he died. He left the country poorer and in religious turmoil, caused by nothing more than his desire to have his will at any cost, disregarding the good of the nation. He abused his wives and daughters unmercifully, and sent many innocent people to the scaffold. Henry VIII was anything but a hero. "
His father left him lots of money because he had saved a lot due to the fact he was mean.
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
18. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 8:10 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 8:10 PM EDT
"I think most historians think he had his good points....even the encyclopedia brittannica says :

Henry VIII built upon the innovations instituted by his father. The break with Rome, coupled with an increase in governmental bureaucracy, led to the royal supremacy that would last until the execution of Charles I and the establishment of the Commonwealth one hundred years after Henry's death. Henry was beloved by his subjects, facing only one major insurrection, the Pilgrimage of Grace, enacted by the northernmost counties in retaliation to the break with Rome and the poor economic state of the region. History remembers Henry in much the same way as Piero Pasqualigo, a Venetian ambassador: "... he is in every respect a most accomplished prince."

Everyone has their opinions :)"
That there was only one major rebellion during Henry's reign is probably due to the fact that he was brutal even to those who had done nothing more than be born with blood as royal as his and the fact the the law meant nothing to him; he just changed or added laws for his convenience, people were probably terrified to disagree with him. As you said, to each his or her own opinion. Many modern historians do differ with the Venetian ambassador, and then, too, 'accomplshed' does not mean anything other than that Henry was learned and well-rounded, not that he accomplished much.
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
19. RE: MY IDOL, HENRY THE EIGHTH
May 7 2009, 8:19 PM EDT | Post edited: May 7 2009, 8:19 PM EDT
Henry VII being mean doesnt change that he gave his son a fortune and Henry squandered it Do you find this valuable?    
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