Discussion: The Irony of Henry's Love Life

"Had Henry acknowleged the children of MB as his own would this have caused problems with succession after AB had children? Wouldn't they be concidered brother and sister of the royal children and could they or heirs have had a claim to the throne after Elizabeth?"

"That is one opinion sandirs...however, there were rumours in Rome before Mary was even born that Henry meant to repudiate Katherine. There was the Anna Stafford incident in 1510 - a year after they were married where Katherine was definitely angry. Henry's eye was caught by Bessie Bount as early as 1513. Katherine was also visibly upset when Henry Fitzroy was born. She withdrew more and more from court so it wasn't like she just accepted his dalliances easily. Mary Boleyn's children were never accepted as Henry's and most historians do not believe they were his.

My hypothesis about the irony - which is in another thread was based on the fact that it seems that even though Henry wanted a son more than anything, he seemed turned off both his wives and his mistresses after they had babies. We will never know what would have happened with Jane but chances are he would have continued to have mistresses.....but I doubt he would have ever wanted to divorce her like he did with both Katherine and Anne.....because they didn't produce the prized son which would have been their saviours."

"That is one opinion sandirs...however, there were rumours in Rome before Mary was even born that Henry meant to repudiate Katherine. There was the Anna Stafford incident in 1510 - a year after they were married where Katherine was definitely angry. Henry's eye was caught by Bessie Bount as early as 1513. Katherine was also visibly upset when Henry Fitzroy was born. She withdrew more and more from court so it wasn't like she just accepted his dalliances easily. Mary Boleyn's children were never accepted as Henry's and most historians do not believe they were his.

My hypothesis about the irony - which is in another thread was based on the fact that it seems that even though Henry wanted a son more than anything, he seemed turned off both his wives and his mistresses after they had babies. We will never know what would have happened with Jane but chances are he would have continued to have mistresses.....but I doubt he would have ever wanted to divorce her like he did with both Katherine and Anne.....because they didn't produce the prized son which would have been their saviours."

"Some men do have issues with their wives or partners after they give birth and become mothers. It,s tied up with some subconscious thought that they're "doing it" to their own mother. They have problems melding sex and love together in a healthy, mature manner, and needless to say have troubled relationships."

"I don't think that Henry lost interest in his wives after they had babies. His marriage to Catherine of Aragon didn't falter until quite a while after the birth of Princess Mary. This birth confirmed that Catherine was capable of bearing a healthy, living infant. In many cultures this is celebrated as "a girl paving the way for a boy".

It was her failure to carry a healthy boy to term PLUS Henry's roving eye alighting on young Anne Boleyn, that in my opinion, doomed the marriage. Add to this, the fact that Catherine's looks faded and she seemed unable to compete with Anne on many levels, relying on religion, Canon Law, and the position of her nephew, the Holy Roman muck-a-muck, to preserve her marriage.

Certainly, Henry never got over plain, sweet Jane Seymour, who succeeded in bearing the healthy prince and paid for it with her death by "childbed fever". Note the last 2 bulleted items above. Also, she was the wife he chose to be buried alongside as his "true" wife (which I've always considered a tremendous slap in the face to Catherine Parr, who nursed him faithfully and diligently through his most frail but irrascible years!).

Regarding mistresses, yes, I think the argument of childbirth is stronger here, although it's believed that BOTH Mary Boleyn' s first 2 children were Henry's: if this is so, and there seems to be no other substantive contender for the daddy honors, obvioiusly the relationship continued after the birth of their daughter.

A different irony: Henry's love and involvement with his son by Bessy Blount, but apparent limited or lack of interest in Mary's children. Was this a manifestation of infatuation with BB, or with becoming a father for the first time, or a combination thereof?? Thoughts?"

"in the dead of winter? Arthur's health was bad and sending him to Ludlow in the rain, cold and snow was definitely a bad decision. What was Henry VII thinking of when he did that?! Surely Margaret Beaufort knew that was a bad idea as well as Elizabeth and Henry himself, so I wonder why she didn't speak up and say sending Arthur to Ludlow Castle would probably kill him and wait until the summer? Mama B's word was law w/Henry, so if she'd said that it was too cold to send Arthur, he'd have listened. Sorry to digress, this thread is about Mary Boleyn Carey and I'd like to stick w/the subject, I just needed to blow off some steam about Henry VII's decisions. But a lot of great points have been made about Mary and her children, and the fact that Henry did provide for her after Anne was executed and her parents deaths shows that he did have some genuine feeling for Mary. I wonder if some dna could be extracted and find out for sure if either of the Carey children were in fact Henry's. I know at this point the maternal dna may be the only way to find out, but if Henry's bones still have something left and Catherine and Henry Carey's bones do, couldn't a paternal match be made? But I don't think Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II would consent to the disturbing of the royal tombs, even for scientific purposes. Even Elizabeth I could have some dna left to use, but at this point in time, I guess it doesn't really matter. The madrocondial(SP?)dna is the only thing left, and that would show the maternal line, not the paternal.

Peace,
ETR"

"I agree with Squirrly to some extent. I think Henry was turned off by his wives after they had children. It happens. Of course it is more complicated than that and each marriage had its own set of issues in terms of where Henry was in his life and his political and personal needs at those times. He appears to have had very different kinds of feelings for each wife, again reflecting his head space at the time as well as the women themselves and their own personalities. In the case of Ann, I think his obsession had begun to fade away before they married but his pride and anger with Rome dictated that he would not dare take another course for fear it would seem that he was following the pope's orders."