Discussion: How would History have changed, do you think...

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FirstTrueQueenAnne	How would History have changed, do you think... Mar 10 2009, 5:41 AM EDT If Anne had really given birth to a healthy son? Post reply 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
Dagney	1. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Mar 10 2009, 5:51 AM EDT "If Anne had really given birth to a healthy son?" Well I think Henry would be really happy and Anne could be safe till the rest of her life.But from other hand - you never know, maybe Henry would be so much in love with Jane Seymour (or any other ambitious girl) that he would anyway harm Anne (divorce or kill).As you can see Henry almost make Jane saint in his eyes because she gave him a son, but she died.We don't know if she would live longer and King would get tired of her, maybe he would found the way to get rid off her too? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
BoleynGirl	2. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Mar 10 2009, 5:54 AM EDT I believe that Henry wouldn't divorce her or kill her..He would have affairs with other ladies but he wouldn't send her away..That's my opinion.... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Reggie19	3. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Mar 10 2009, 2:32 PM EDT "I believe that Henry wouldn't divorce her or kill her..He would have affairs with other ladies but he wouldn't send her away..That's my opinion...." I agree with BoleynGirl, i do sometimes wonder what would have happened if Elizabeth had been born a boy. Henry was so blissfully in love with Anne at this time, that maybe her giving him a son would have basically made her a saint in his eyes. I think he would have had the affairs still, especially during the periods where Anne was pregnant time and time again, but i don't think he would have killed or sought out a reason to get rid of her. I think he would have remained in love with Anne, but would continue his philandering ways! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
TheSecondWife	4. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 27 2009, 5:08 PM EDT I think this definitely would have saved her from the scaffold, not to mention a whole lot of pain and distress. I honestly don't believe Henry would have shown any serious interest in Jane Seymour if Anne had given him a son, she would have been set for life, untouchable almost. The only reason Henry continued to take on wives after Jane was to supply the throne with extra heirs just in case. (And let's face it, Henry was one heck of a horny old man...) However, if she had given birth to a healthy baby boy, wouldn't that have taken away Elizabeth's chance to be Queen? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Eternity123	5. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 27 2009, 5:29 PM EDT Well Henry wouldn't be "famous" for having multiple wives. But I don't think their would be a big change in history; unless you go as far as Elizabeth like TheSecondWife mentioned. He definitely would've remained with her (and mistresses on the side)....but obviously their personalities clashed so I doubt the "love" would've remained for as long as they lived. But she would've been secure in her place. Sorry to go off topic but the bigger change in history would've been if KOA bore healthy sons. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
The_Irish_Prince	6. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 28 2009, 11:18 AM EDT Even if Anne had given birth to a vigorous prince, Henry's affairs would not have completely diminished, especially if she were to continue getting pregnant. And if Anne truly believed in the sanctity of marriage, her faith would not have endured such hardships for very long without speaking her mind or ridding her court of Henry's mistresses. Marriages in those days were rarely happy ones, even if you were a wife who "looked the other way." However, I do believe that Anne would have had better chance to keep her head from rolling upon the floors of the scaffold, and she would have instilled in her son a love and a faith so strong, he might have led a long and successful reign. Then again, he would have also replaced our beloved Elizabeth. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
luvprue2	7. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 28 2009, 9:47 PM EDT "If Anne had really given birth to a healthy son?" Anne might have been safe...at least for a while. The people never accepted Anne. So would they have accepted a royal heir by her? What if they didn't would Henry VIII have had more people killed, or would he have moved on to a new women? ..and what about Princess Mary? would Anne have push for Mary's death once she have given the king a son? Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
FirstTrueQueenAnne	8. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 29 2009, 4:06 PM EDT I think that knowing what had happened to Catherine in order for Henry to get his way that Anne would have had to accepr Mary but not in place of her own son. It would rather be like the succession we had with Edward, Mary then Elizabeth but with Anne and Henry still married but permanently separated and free to go about their own affairs. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MsSquirrly	9. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 29 2009, 4:30 PM EDT "Anne might have been safe...at least for a while. The people never accepted Anne. So would they have accepted a royal heir by her? What if they didn't would Henry VIII have had more people killed, or would he have moved on to a new women? ..and what about Princess Mary? would Anne have push for Mary's death once she have given the king a son? " The people didn't accept her while Katherine of Aragon was alive ...after her death they would have seen her as legitimate and to some extent did because her execution was unpopular and there were popular ballads against Henry and Jane which Henry wrote about in a letter to her. When you say, he would have had more people killed....you are referring to More and Fisher I presume? Their deaths were due to them not accepting Henry as head of the church and that continued after Anne's death. Its pretty sure that Henry would have moved on to other women because he was fickle of nature and either Anne would have had to come to terms with it or he may have banished her like he did Katherine. As for Princess Mary...there would be no need for her death since a son would have had priority in succession and Anne would have felt secure and had no fear of Mary and her followers. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Emma_GG	10. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Apr 29 2009, 6:03 PM EDT "If Anne had really given birth to a healthy son?" It would certainly changed things for Anne. The fact is, even if Henry had loved Jane and hated Anne, he would never compromise the legitimacy of his marriage for fear of discrediting his heir, which, after all, is what he wanted most in the world. Henry would not be the King with six wives, rather he would have the lesser title of the King who split from Rome. With Anne's position secure, Elizabeth's position would also be secure and without Jane Seymour in the picture, Mary would probably never have been restored to the succession. Anne's son would have succeeded, god knows what then. But with Anne in power, this would have meant bad news for Cromwell, and POSSIBLY a very different Pilgrimage of Grace. As to Anne and Henry's relationship, we can only fathom what that would have been like. I can only assume it would have been positive. In terms of fidelity, I doubt he would have stayed true to her. But still, Anne would have the ultimate prize. That's what I think, anyway :) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
QueenAmber	11. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Jun 23 2009, 10:12 AM EDT "It would certainly changed things for Anne. The fact is, even if Henry had loved Jane and hated Anne, he would never compromise the legitimacy of his marriage for fear of discrediting his heir, which, after all, is what he wanted most in the world. Henry would not be the King with six wives, rather he would have the lesser title of the King who split from Rome. "With Anne's position secure, Elizabeth's position would also be secure and without Jane Seymour in the picture, Mary would probably never have been restored to the succession. Anne's son would have succeeded, god knows what then. But with Anne in power, this would have meant bad news for Cromwell, and POSSIBLY a very different Pilgrimage of Grace. As to Anne and Henry's relationship, we can only fathom what that would have been like. I can only assume it would have been positive. In terms of fidelity, I doubt he would have stayed true to her. But still, Anne would have the ultimate prize. That's what I think, anyway :)" "Anne might have been safe...at least for a while. The people never accepted Anne. So would they have accepted a royal heir by her? What if they didn't would Henry VIII have had more people killed, or would he have moved on to a new women? ..and what about Princess Mary? would Anne have push for Mary's death once she have given the king a son? "" He would be famous 4 the split from the Church Of Rome rather than his 6 wives- and for de/ivorcing Katherine. Considering Anne's temper and her unwillingness to share him she would've had to think quick to keep that fire that he loved about her burning!I don't think the ppl would've had a prob. w/ ne royal heirs she had .Look how Elizabeth is praised,rightfully so. She is her mother's daughter and any son she had would b the same way. However, i think God would've called him home so Elizabeth could reign. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Tudor_Queen	12. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Aug 9 2009, 12:51 PM EDT I agree, I think that had she given Henry a son, he wouldn't have been so bitter over what he had done. After all, he loved Anne and the thing he desired even more than her was male issue. Had she been able to deliver a son, I believe Jane Seymour would have been nothing more than a mistress... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
luvprue2	13. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Aug 11 2009, 5:29 PM EDT "I agree, I think that had she given Henry a son, he wouldn't have been so bitter over what he had done. After all, he loved Anne and the thing he desired even more than her was male issue. Had she been able to deliver a son, I believe Jane Seymour would have been nothing more than a mistress..." ...and if Katherine of Aragon had given Henry VIII a son, the world might not have ever known of Anne Boleyn. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DuchessGrey	14. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Aug 12 2009, 9:29 AM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 9:38 AM EDT The entire history of England would have changed. Elizabeth would have been married off to some European ruler or nobleman, probably France, given that Anne held such high esteem for the country. Prince Edward would never have existed and Princess Mary would never have been Queen, she probably would have retired to a nunnery because as long as Anne remained Queen, no one would have dared to make an effort on her part. I do not believe, however, that Anne would have killed Mary, simply because once Anne had her healthy son she would be untouchable, and no one would pose much a threat. Henry VIII would not have allowed harm to come to the mother of his son. So, killing Mary would serve no purpose. And, if that boy grew up, got married and had kids who ruled after him, King James I would only have stayed King of Scotland and never would have had a chance to gain the throne of England. Meaning that all those who followed after him, including the current Royal Family now, would probably not be the ruling family at the moment. There would probably have still been some civil unrest because of the conflict with religion, however, it would depend on how strong of a ruler the son would have been. If he grew to be a ruthless ruler like Henry, than what more needs to be said? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HistoricQueen3	15. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Aug 24 2009, 2:35 PM EDT Imagine if the son, became exactly like Henry, and took six wives or something! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
henry's7thwife	16. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Nov 8 2009, 2:25 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 8 2009, 2:25 PM EST "The entire history of England would have changed. Elizabeth would have been married off to some European ruler or nobleman, probably France, given that Anne held such high esteem for the country. Prince Edward would never have existed and Princess Mary would never have been Queen, she probably would have retired to a nunnery because as long as Anne remained Queen, no one would have dared to make an effort on her part. I do not believe, however, that Anne would have killed Mary, simply because once Anne had her healthy son she would be untouchable, and no one would pose much a threat. Henry VIII would not have allowed harm to come to the mother of his son. So, killing Mary would serve no purpose. And, if that boy grew up, got married and had kids who ruled after him, King James I would only have stayed King of Scotland and never would have had a chance to gain the throne of England. Meaning that all those who followed after him, including the current Royal Family now, would probably not be the ruling family at the moment. There would probably have still been some civil unrest because of the conflict with religion, however, it would depend on how strong of a ruler the son would have been. If he grew to be a ruthless ruler like Henry, than what more needs to be said?" Wow ... that's some imagination. Surprising really how a few marriages could change history so much. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Elliemental	17. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Nov 8 2009, 4:47 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 8 2009, 4:47 PM EST Would those sons (borne by Anne) have been accepted as legitimate? One of the big problems was that none of the other major European rulers accepted Henry and Anne`s marraige as lawful (it`d been declared null and void by the Pope after all). So any children concieved in that marraige were regarded as bastards (and we know that Elizabeth was). The circumstances surrounding the marraige had been so controversial, that maybe Anne would still have created more problems than she solved. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AJBates	18. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Nov 8 2009, 5:06 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 8 2009, 5:06 PM EST I think that if she had a son no one would consider them bastards at all. Elizabeth was a girl and not an heir to the throne in normal means just another daughter, same as Mary so it would seem alright that they were fighting over who had was higher then the other. But I don't think anyone including the Pope at the time which were all political would dare to call the future king of england a bastard nor would any other countries. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Reggie19	19. RE: How would History have changed, do you think... Nov 8 2009, 5:36 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 8 2009, 5:36 PM EST "Would those sons (borne by Anne) have been accepted as legitimate? One of the big problems was that none of the other major European rulers accepted Henry and Anne`s marraige as lawful (it`d been declared null and void by the Pope after all). So any children concieved in that marraige were regarded as bastards (and we know that Elizabeth was). The circumstances surrounding the marraige had been so controversial, that maybe Anne would still have created more problems than she solved." To me, if Henry and Anne had borne a son, and considering the era where these kind of signs were taken seriously, Europe may have accepted the marriage if a son had been produced on that basis. It would have been viewed as God's will, that Henry was supposed to divorce Katherine because God wanted him to have a son with Anne. Chapuys made a similar remark in episode nine of S2, that God hadn't given Henry a son, because he believed England should have a female heir? Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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