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Discussion: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their childrenReported This is a featured thread

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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 13 2008, 1:23 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 13 2008, 1:23 AM EDT
We have started a new page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Heirs

How do you think the queens influenced their offspring or what attributes do you think their children inherited from their mothers?
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
1. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 13 2008, 8:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 13 2008, 8:54 AM EDT
"We have started a new page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Heirs

How do you think the queens influenced their offspring or what attributes do you think their children inherited from their mothers?"
From Katharine, Mary inherited her strong religious faith and the ability to love when that love was not reciprocated; from both parents, her strong will.
Elizabeth inherited from Anne her sense of expediency (doing what is necessary to bring about the desired result), from Henry her lack of squeamishness about removing obstacles. From the situation with both parents a flexibility in her religious practice. She was tolerant because she saw the results of intolerance, but Catholics were persecuted under her reign. She always looked to the security of her crown. Also from the situation with her parents, and the results of Mary's unrequieted love for Phillip, an unwillingness to place herself in a subordinate position by marrying, because in those times even queens became subordinate to a husband.
Poor Edward did not have his mother in his life long enough for her to be much of an influence; all that can be seen of Jane is in his facial resemblance to her. From his father, he inherited a strong will. In his case, that was manifest in his insistence on Protestant practice in matters of religion, and his overturning the succession of his Catholic sister, Mary in favor of the devoutly Protestant Jane Grey, although that was probably as much a matter of persuasion from his handlers, his Seymour uncles, as of Edward's wish.
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funrod6
funrod6
2. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 13 2008, 7:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 13 2008, 7:13 PM EDT
"From Katharine, Mary inherited her strong religious faith and the ability to love when that love was not reciprocated; from both parents, her strong will.
Elizabeth inherited from Anne her sense of expediency (doing what is necessary to bring about the desired result), from Henry her lack of squeamishness about removing obstacles. From the situation with both parents a flexibility in her religious practice. She was tolerant because she saw the results of intolerance, but Catholics were persecuted under her reign. She always looked to the security of her crown. Also from the situation with her parents, and the results of Mary's unrequieted love for Phillip, an unwillingness to place herself in a subordinate position by marrying, because in those times even queens became subordinate to a husband.
Poor Edward did not have his mother in his life long enough for her to be much of an influence; all that can be seen of Jane is in his facial resemblance to her. From his father, he inherited a strong will. In his case, that was manifest in his insistence on Protestant practice in matters of religion, and his overturning the succession of his Catholic sister, Mary in favor of the devoutly Protestant Jane Grey, although that was probably as much a matter of persuasion from his handlers, his Seymour uncles, as of Edward's wish. "
as always I love your insight. Your posts....And I love the balance you bring.
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
3. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 14 2008, 12:48 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2008, 12:48 AM EDT
"as always I love your insight. Your posts....And I love the balance you bring.
"
Thanks for the compliment, funrod. You start some very interesting threads.
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lettice
lettice
4. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 14 2008, 8:53 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2008, 8:53 AM EDT
Mary inherited her mother's staunch belief in Catholicism as being the true religion and like her mother, to a fault. She was proud and stood by her convictions (also, to a fault). As one's characteristics are part inherited temperament and part environmental influence, Mary was significantly effected by her mother's fate, and like her mother she had a strong sense of loyalty to those she loved.
Elizabeth inherited her intelligence from both parents and her shrewed cunning from AB. Her own experiences taught her to be more tolreant of others and to think things through before making decisions. She was sometimes criticized for being indecisive, but this was probably in part due to seeing how rash, impulsive behavior could be one's demise.
Edward was intelligent & precocious like many of the Tudor children. As he never knew his mother and died at such a young age, it is difficult to examine his character as it was still developing.
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Neveleo
Neveleo
5. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 14 2008, 6:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 14 2008, 6:15 PM EDT
I think Mary inherited her staunch loyalty from Katherine of Aragon, demonstrated firstly by her fierce loyalty to her mother, and refusal to bow to the king's demands for her to acknowledge Anne as queen and Elizabeth of heir - even though to do so would have meant an easier life for her. Despite the difficulties she lived through (you can't help but feel sorry for her) she kept her religious beliefes - just like her mother - her faith never faultered.
Elizabeth I think possibly inherited a mistrust of men through what happened to her mother - at least in part. I believe this strongly influenced her decision never to marry. I think that she was very aware that she was 'supposed' to have been a boy, and so went on to prove her worth tenfold (an early 'girl power' representative). Elizabeth, I believe, led the way for changes to be made to opinions of women in general - albeit it took centuries for us to achieve some level of equality. Obviously, sadly she did not get to know her mother very well, but I believe that in itself affects a child.
Edward also did not get to know his mother and sadly died young, but I wonder if his fragile health maybe started with his traumatic birth. A two day labour can be dangerous both for mother and child and may have somehow weakened him??? Just a thought. Of Henry's children I must admit Edward is the one I know least about but I believe he was strongly influenced by the Seymour men - who went on to die grisly deaths on the scaffold! Poor Edward died too young.
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Boudica
Boudica
6. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 15 2008, 1:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2008, 1:56 PM EDT
"We have started a new page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Heirs

How do you think the queens influenced their offspring or what attributes do you think their children inherited from their mothers?"
Both Mary and Katherine suffered from phantom pregnancies? Really? That's very interesting. I knew about Mary's two, but I had thought all of Katherine's were either miscarriages, stillborns or died in infancy (except Mary herself ofcourse).
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
7. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 15 2008, 2:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 15 2008, 2:17 PM EDT
yes evidently she miscarried January 31, 1510 and this was documented by her physician who reported her menstrual cycle returning. Her belly continued to grow however and so they thought she was still pregnant. She took to her chambers in March to await the birth. Nothing happened. Nothing at all. When Katherine finally emerged from her birthing chambers, without a child, she and Henry violently quarreled. Their first year of marriage did not go well by all accounts because it was also 1510 that there was the scandal of the Stafford sisters. 2  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
8. RE: The Queen's influence and inherited attributes to their children
Oct 16 2008, 5:44 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 16 2008, 5:44 PM EDT
For the source for this...here is a quote :

It has been recorded in both L&P, vol. I i, 394 and the Spanish Calendar - Supplements to volumes I and II. All the English - Spanish official correspondence.

The miscarriage of a daughter, which took place on January 31, was recorded by Katherine of Aragon's confessor, Fray Diego. He stated she had no warning except for a pain in her knee the night before; she was then brought to bed, and delivered of a six months developed daughter. The confessor, two Spanish ladies in waiting, the physician knew about it - the King was immediately informed. There is no doubt as to this miscarriage.

Apparently, the physician claimed "the Queen remained pregnant of another child and it was believed". Even after her menstrual cycles resumed, the charade continued on for three months, until Katherine retired to her chambers to await the birth. Apparently, the new Spanish Ambassador, Luiz Caroz, although not having heard about the January miscarriage upon arrival in England, somehow doubted the Queen was actually pregnant - he'd heard her cycles had resumed, and was astonished at how all had been duped into thinking a menstruating woman could possibly be pregnant.

Both Diego and Caroz sent full accounts of this bizarre situation back to Spain.

Fray Diego, in late March, reported "it has pleased our Lord to be her physician in such a way that the swelling decreased". Katherine remained in seclusion until late May.

In May, Katherine of Aragon sent her father a letter stating she miscarried of a daughter "some days before", and that "her child was still born is considered to be a misfortune in England . . . do not be angry with me, for it has been the will of God." [thanks to Verelai, IMDB]
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