Discussion: Question about Thomos More

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coronation	20. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 10:51 AM EDT Wow I will definetly be getting that. Didnt his daughter rescue his head before it could be thrown into The River Thames and she had it buried with her. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Boudica	21. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 10:54 AM EDT "In the series Henry mentioned reading More's book Utopia. Are there any sources that discuss the historical Henry reading More's works or any thoughts that he might have had in reference to his writings?" Well considering More helped Henry write the Seven Sacraments (although some believe it was really John Fisher who did the bulk of the work) I would think Henry had a great deal of respect and admiration for More's writing and philosophy. More wrote over half a dozen religious writings defending the Catholic church from the critiques of Tyndale and Luther, and I'm sure while Henry was "defender of the faith" and being a cafeteria Reformist he would support More's writings. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Boudica	22. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 10:59 AM EDT "Wow I will definetly be getting that. Didnt his daughter rescue his head before it could be thrown into The River Thames and she had it buried with her." She did, and then she had it pickled in a jar and she was buried with it when she died. They are buried in the Roper Vault wheras More's body was buried at the St. Peter ad Vicula chapel at the Tower. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
funrod6	23. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 12:19 PM EDT "She did, and then she had it pickled in a jar and she was buried with it when she died. They are buried in the Roper Vault wheras More's body was buried at the St. Peter ad Vicula chapel at the Tower." Boudica do you know when that book comes out ? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Boudica	24. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 12:24 PM EDT "Boudica do you know when that book comes out ?" In the States it's due out March 17, 2009. But in the U.K. it's been out since July. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
angelosdaughter	25. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 12:51 PM EDT "Again Im going to respectfully disagree with Both you and Ms.... First in almost all historical books that I have read it is true that More really did not think of Henry as his best buddy. More felt best at home with his wife and children. Henry sought out a friendship with More because he respected his knowledge on many things of interest to the King. He would call for him at all hours of the day and night. And More obligied ever the servant to the King. More did not take the Oath because it went against his religious beliefs and to do so would be going against God in his eyes. He however did make an attempt to just live quietly away and not bring up the matter. But It was Henrys ego that this person he held in high regard (even if he was of common stock!) would not declare the oath. Even when his family begged him, he was a faithful servant to God first before the King. Placing blame like that to say More died because it was his own fault is like saying its Annes fault she couldnt shut her mouth and produce a male heir." Henry wanted More to sign the Oath and support him because among all of the court syncophants, More was known to be an honest man. Henry wished to be seen as virtuous and supported by such a man. And, yes, I believe that Henry would have seen More's death as his own choice dictated by his conscience in opposition to the King's will. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Holly2	26. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 12:54 PM EDT "Henry wanted More to sign the Oath and support him because among all of the court syncophants, More was known to be an honest man. Henry wished to be seen as virtuous and supported by such a man. And, yes, I believe that Henry would have seen More's death as his own choice dictated by his conscience in opposition to the King's will. " I'd say that Henry wanted to be told that he was right. Because he respected More and because, as you say, More was known to be honest, his approval would have been far more valuable to Henry than that of many of those who took the Oath. He couldn't let it go. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
funrod6	27. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 1:03 PM EDT "I'd say that Henry wanted to be told that he was right. Because he respected More and because, as you say, More was known to be honest, his approval would have been far more valuable to Henry than that of many of those who took the Oath. He couldn't let it go." I wonder in private opinion of the people, how they felt about their King when he had More executed ? I know that none would speak against him openly. But in private I wonder if the people really started to see Henry differently ? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
angelosdaughter	28. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 1:14 PM EDT "I wonder in private opinion of the people, how they felt about their King when he had More executed ? I know that none would speak against him openly. But in private I wonder if the people really started to see Henry differently ?" Probably most of them were terrified of Henry if he could execute anyone just for disagreeing with him. The fact that no one plotted to assassinate Henry is in my opinion proof that the people around him were either too frightened (upon whom would his wrath fall next?) or too self-interested to act. In ancient Rome, when a tyrant became truly unbearable, a plot usually developed to rid the people of the ruler as it did with Nero and Caligula among others. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
funrod6	29. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 1:30 PM EDT "In the States it's due out March 17, 2009. But in the U.K. it's been out since July." Ohhhh have you read it ? Is it on the bookshelf here ? I dont know how to read money to but it in US vs UK bills ? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Boudica	30. RE: Question about Thomos More Sep 16 2008, 2:21 PM EDT "Ohhhh have you read it ? Is it on the bookshelf here ? I dont know how to read money to but it in US vs UK bills ?" I live in the States but I usually don't order books from the UK unless I absolutely MUST have it a few months early. I'd love to buy it and read it once it comes out in the U.S. I'm a big fan of John Guy, I loved his book on Mary Stuart ( called "My Heart is My Own") and I'm sure this new one is spectacular. I'm also waiting impatiently for David Starkey's "Henry: Virtuous Prince" and Leanda de Lisle's "The Sisters Who Would Be Queen" about the under researched Grey sisters. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HouseCat	31. RE: Question about Thomos More Nov 10 2008, 12:10 AM EST I think H VIII desperately wanted More's approval since he was surrounded by ambitious 'yes' men. More was a lay person but he carried the moral authority that John Fisher embodied. His opinion counted. Since he bowed out of public office he could have been let alone at least for awhile if H VIII had let him. To a degree we see the paralell w/H II & Becket in the sense that both kings expected to retain the highest allegiance of men they respected and loved. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HouseCat	32. RE: Question about Thomos More Nov 10 2008, 12:14 AM EST "I live in the States but I usually don't order books from the UK unless I absolutely MUST have it a few months early. I'd love to buy it and read it once it comes out in the U.S. I'm a big fan of John Guy, I loved his book on Mary Stuart ( called "My Heart is My Own") and I'm sure this new one is spectacular. I'm also waiting impatiently for David Starkey's "Henry: Virtuous Prince" and Leanda de Lisle's "The Sisters Who Would Be Queen" about the under researched Grey sisters." I live in the states too but I've found that UK editions (in many disciplines) convey a certain sense of phrasing that I think adds to these kind of subjects. I hope to read John Guy Post reply Do you find this valuable?
dorinda.gear	33. RE: Question about Thomas More Nov 10 2008, 2:25 PM EST Yes, she bribed the yeoman/cleaner/gate-man or whatever he was to give it to her. The skull was unearthed at some point and is now held in some family vault in Staffordshire/Warwickshire or somewhere - you can google to find out or it's on wiki I think. Sorry, I'm not very specific! It would fascinating to see it, sadly it's not on public display to my knowledge. Mind you, it is kind of sad that it isn't still near her body, as she wished. But then, look at all the old bones archaeologists have dug up and put in museums over the years. I suppose once you're dead your essence is not in your bones but, as in Thomas More's case it lives on in the legacy he left, in what he'd done in his life.Now I'm getting all wistful! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
dorinda.gear	34. RE: Question about Thomas More Nov 10 2008, 2:27 PM EST I knew someone here would know! They should put his body with them, I think. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Clumsyxheart	35. RE: Question about Thomas More Dec 1 2008, 1:40 PM EST \| Post edited: Dec 1 2008, 1:40 PM EST "I knew someone here would know! They should put his body with them, I think." Yeah but he is buried in a shallow grave with bishop fisher what if they take bishop fishers body by mistake that wouldnt be good! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Walsingham	36. RE: Question about Thomos More Mar 2 2009, 6:01 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 2 2009, 6:01 PM EST "I think H VIII desperately wanted More's approval since he was surrounded by ambitious 'yes' men. More was a lay person but he carried the moral authority that John Fisher embodied. His opinion counted. Since he bowed out of public office he could have been let alone at least for awhile if H VIII had let him. To a degree we see the paralell w/H II & Becket in the sense that both kings expected to retain the highest allegiance of men they respected and loved. " That is close to the impression I have gotten over the years about the relationship[ between More and Henry, but as is noted, no one knows the degree. I seem to recall that Henry would keep More late at night to watch the stars, and I think he liked his mind. Don't they embody part of what makes this time and these people so interesting, they can be so brilliant and complex, and yet so flawed. More, Henry, all of them. Interesting connection you raise to Henry II and Becket, I've thought about William I as well. Three kings (one a 'bastard,' one a son of one) with unbending will, a capacity for ruthlessness, and considerable or a reputation for avarice in their careers. Henry II was my ancestor many generations hence, so I'll be careful not to cast the net too broadly :) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Walsingham	37. RE: Question about Thomas More Mar 2 2009, 6:05 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 2 2009, 6:05 PM EST By the way, how many of you have seen "A Man for All Seasons?" Academy award-winner for 1966 as I recall. Paul Scofield has always been the definitive More, and was one of my favorite actors. How would you compare Northam (who I just realized this weekend is in Amistad and has a remarkably similar religious/consicence scene) and Scofield's portrayals? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
karenofbethany	38. RE: Question about Thomos More Mar 2 2009, 7:22 PM EST \| Post edited: Mar 2 2009, 7:22 PM EST If you watch the classic movie: A Man For All Seasons, I think it will clear up a lot for you. Thomas More truly loved the king, and it is my opinion that love was reciprocated with respect. I feel if the King could have gotten away with not executing him, he would have done so. There were other forces and factions at play. The King wanted Anne Boyeln and nothing else mattered to him at the time. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
charlucy	39. RE: Question about Thomos More Apr 16 2009, 12:00 AM EDT "I am starting read more about him since seeing the character in the series. My question did King Henry feel as much gulit as about More death as he did in the series. Thanks :)" I believe he did i remember reading after the death of Thomas Moore that he told Anne Boleyn that you cause the death of a great man Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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