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Location: Episode 1.01
Discussion: buckingham
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crmgds crmgds |
buckingham
Jul 8 2008, 7:48 PM EDT hello. i was wondering. why is the duke of buckingham acting in the role of server and holding a hand washing bowl for henry at dinner when henry is going to have dinner with woolsey? Do you find this valuable? |
 melaniej65 |
RE: buckingham
Jul 8 2008, 8:46 PM EDT This was considered a high honor, and the Duke was most likely the man of the highest Rank in attendance. This is why he was so offended when the Cardinal dipped his hands- effectively inferring that the Duke was inferior to the Cardinal (who was the son of a butcher). This was a factual incident. I hope this has helped you to understand...Melanie 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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crmgds crmgds |
RE: buckingham
Jul 9 2008, 6:47 PM EDT hi. thank you so much for your reply. i have just begun watching the series and am very ambivalent about. (henry shooting a musket? it looks ridiculous. i don't think even the earliest prototypes of guns were invented at that time. and can't believe some of the historical inaccuracies. did henry even have a sister?) but anyway, what would buckingham have been doing? would he have been simply at court that day and thus be participating in this honor as part of a rotating schedule or something? but thank you anyway for your reply. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 MsSquirrly |
RE: buckingham
Jul 9 2008, 8:03 PM EDT "hi. thank you so much for your reply. i have just begun watching the series and am very ambivalent about. (henry shooting a musket? it looks ridiculous. i don't think even the earliest prototypes of guns were invented at that time. and can't believe some of the historical inaccuracies. did henry even have a sister?) but anyway, what would buckingham have been doing? would he have been simply at court that day and thus be participating in this honor as part of a rotating schedule or something? but thank you anyway for your reply. "If Henry did shoot a gun, he may have used a matchlock or possible a wheelock gun but you are right, the flintlock is an inaccuracy. Henry did have two sisters Mary and Margaret and the series has amalgamated them as one and called them Margaret. You can check out the profile on the wiki pages here on the left to see what inaccuracies there are with regard to her. Buckingham was courtier which meant he was at court most of the time and held a position in the privy chamber like most of the Lords & Ladies which would have something to do with the King's person. The rough estimate of people at court was 800 - 1000 at any given time. It was a busy place and knights & ladies vyed to be in the enviable position of assisting the king with all kinds of personal things. Most of the show is pretty factual despite a few errors. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
 GarterBooth |
RE: buckingham
Jul 10 2008, 10:26 AM EDT further, Buckingham was most probably a member gentleman of the bedchamer, a position which brought him in close proximity to the King and allowed him access. as has been said to serve the King in the manner of holding the water for the King to clean his hands was an honour but also demonsrated the Dukes closeness to the King to be so trusted. crmgds: the tudor courts worked on a large tree of patronage with the King at the head giving out favours, from him it would be dispensed and often handed to lords such as buckingham. Also people paid lords and ladies bribes to get an audiance with the King, or to get a petition through to him or a favourable outcome in a case, watch 'a man for all seasons' it is about Thomas More but it will demonstrate this. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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GarterBooth |
RE: buckingham
Jul 10 2008, 10:31 AM EDT crmgds: As said before it was a great honour to the DUke and part of his duties. He would have been a member of the Kings household, most likley a gentleman of the Bedchamber, this would have given him great access to the King. and they would have been at court most of the time, but also on a rota system, serving several months on then have some off where they could go to their estates. Further the TUdor court was part of a huge patronage tree with the King at the top, and the closser the lord was to the King the more power he was seen to have, he would have accepted payments fropm people who wanted access to the King, for an audiance or simply a petition as the King was supreme in everything. Also fgavourable judgments if the lord had influence in the Courts, I recomed you watch 'a man for all seasons' it is a 1966 film about Thomas More but will demonstrate this. Yes it is unlickly the King would have fired a muskeet, copnsidering he was a fine archer. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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GarterBooth |
RE: buckingham
Jul 10 2008, 10:32 AM EDT did not mean to post twice, just my computer playing up. Do you find this valuable? |
 Boudica |
RE: buckingham
Jul 10 2008, 10:57 AM EDT "hi. thank you so much for your reply. i have just begun watching the series and am very ambivalent about. (henry shooting a musket? it looks ridiculous. i don't think even the earliest prototypes of guns were invented at that time. and can't believe some of the historical inaccuracies. did henry even have a sister?) but anyway, what would buckingham have been doing? would he have been simply at court that day and thus be participating in this honor as part of a rotating schedule or something? but thank you anyway for your reply. "Yep Henry definately had a sister, two in fact! They were of great historical importance despite not being as well known as their brother. (without Margaret there would have been no Stuart dynasty ruling England) Do you find this valuable? |
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crmgds crmgds |
RE: buckingham
Jul 11 2008, 8:14 PM EDT "Yep Henry definately had a sister, two in fact! They were of great historical importance despite not being as well known as their brother. (without Margaret there would have been no Stuart dynasty ruling England)"hello, and thank you to all who replied. this was very informative. first, i actually own 'a man for all seasons' and love it and watch it every year or to along with 'the lion in winter'. i'm embarrased about the sister issue with henry. while i was waiting i pulled out a book that i forgot i had and had packed away, a beautiful book, 'the lives of the kings and queens of england' edited by antonia fraser (u of cal press) and sure enough henry had two sisters. apologize for the superfluous query, i should have checked. as the previous poster says, the entire stuart dynasty falls from margaret, margaret being the grandmother of mary queen of scots. arghh. ok. i will explore the web site....but of course, now i'm on to "marrying the king of portugal and murdering him ???! " now, come on! that didn't happen! antonia g-table doesn't have that ! but i do notice that mary, henry's younger sister marries a 'charles brandon'. hmm. anyway, thank you for all the wonderful info on life at court. i think i might pick up allison weir's henry VIII: the kind and his court. any other recommendations would be gladly appreciated. i was also thinking of reading some novels of the english kings/queens by a writer named jean plaidy. i think she wrote years ago along a romance novel genre line but they appear solid in historical fact. advice welcome. and thank you all again. Do you find this valuable? |
 Lady.Perserverance |
RE: buckingham
Jul 28 2008, 3:20 AM EDT Hi there crmads...you had asked if about recommendations of literature. I see you've expressed interest in Jean Plaidy. I have yet to get around to reading her, however, I belong to a yahoo group 'tudortalk' and I hear great things about her books within that group. You also mentioned Alison Wier. I can say from experience that she is an exceptional biographer. I own her 'The Six Wives of Henry the VIII' and 'The Life of Elizabeth I'. They are both wonderfully accurate while at the same time flow extremely well (especially for any book based on 100% historical fact). If you are at all interested in that period of English history (which I assume you are) then you will definetly enjoy Weir's writing. Oh and also you had said in your most recent post on July 11th - "mary Henry's younger sister marries a 'charles brandon'. hmmm". My reply to that is - yes this in fact did occur although not exactly how it did on the show. Charles Brandon 1st Duke of Suffolk (and Henry's buddy) married Mary Tudor (Queen Dowager of France) in May of 1515, They had 3 children together, one of which was Lady Frances Brandon who would later go on to marry Henry Grey (Marquess of Dorset) and birth the infamous Lady Jane Grey (the 7 day queen). Do you find this valuable? |
 lettice |
RE: buckingham
Jul 29 2008, 12:59 PM EDT "This was considered a high honor, and the Duke was most likely the man of the highest Rank in attendance.What an interesting fact. I remember the scene and thought it might have been Henry's way of insulting Buckingham. I didn't realize it was an honor; you live and learn! Do you find this valuable? |