Discussion: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?

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funrod6	60. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 8 2008, 11:57 PM EDT "I don't think she was trying to buy their love. Its said that the first thing she'd do when her and Henry went to a new place was to inquire as to how she could help the poor, the churches, etc. And she gave away more money to charity in her three years as queen than Katherine did in 20... I think thats more than trying to buy love." Well I think if you research history Queen Katherine was loved by the people much more than Anne. Katherine also did much for her people including leading her men as Regent of the Kingdom against the Scots. Also she did sew clothing for the poor. She did give money. Maybe not as much. But in Annes 3 years of Being Queen and giving 3 times the money why wasnt she beloved ? Post reply 4 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
funrod6	61. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 9 2008, 12:01 AM EDT cont....she also was pregnant 6 times, which meant going into confinment. She dedicated her life to God, England and Henry/Mary. Your brought up good points about helping the churches etc. But what about the Catholic Churches that were destroyed ? Not all Catholic Churches or properties were bad. I do believe Anne did do some things for the right reasons....others with motives behind them. Post reply 4 out of 8 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
annethequene	62. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 9 2008, 9:11 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 9 2008, 9:11 AM EDT "Well I think if you research history Queen Katherine was loved by the people much more than Anne. Katherine also did much for her people including leading her men as Regent of the Kingdom against the Scots. Also she did sew clothing for the poor. She did give money. Maybe not as much. But in Annes 3 years of Being Queen and giving 3 times the money why wasnt she beloved ? " Because people saw her as a whore, and the fact that she took the place of Katherine. When you think about it, once Henry set her sights on her, she really couldn't get out of it at all. She was trapped. And if I were her, I'd go for beloved wife rather than disgraced mistress, too. Post reply 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Boudica	63. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 9 2008, 10:08 AM EDT "I perked up a little bit, to be honest. I figured that if Mary had just kidnapped the King's daughter, the next scene should involve her being beheaded (and I found Scarlett Johannsen a painfully irritating Mary) or at least locked away in a dungeon but no! " LOL! Yeah I was thinking "What the heck is she doing???" Yeah it was a really stupid scene, Elizabeth may have treated her Boleyn relatives with favor when she was queen but there isn't any evidence that her aunt Mary had much of a role in her life, let alone whisked her away to be raised in the country side. Post reply 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Boudica	64. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 9 2008, 10:16 AM EDT "Your brought up good points about helping the churches etc. But what about the Catholic Churches that were destroyed ? Not all Catholic Churches or properties were bad. I do believe Anne did do some things for the right reasons....others with motives behind them." Anne Boleyn wasn't responsible for and did not support the dissolution of the monasteries, she wanted them to be reformed not closed. This is brought up in The Tudors when Anne tells Cromwell, "Our Reformation was never meant to be about personal gain, religious houses should not be sold off but converted to better uses". Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
funrod6	65. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 9 2008, 10:38 AM EDT "Anne Boleyn wasn't responsible for and did not support the dissolution of the monasteries, she wanted them to be reformed not closed. This is brought up in The Tudors when Anne tells Cromwell, "Our Reformation was never meant to be about personal gain, religious houses should not be sold off but converted to better uses". " No I understand that Boudica with respect, however cause and effect followed suit of breaking from the church. Henry becoming Head of Church she did support. So while she may not have approved there was a cause and effect because of it. As for the poster before, annethequene, ok you just wrote that about the people not me. You say the people saw her as a whore ? People loved Katherine I believe regardless of whom he set eyes on prior never became Queen. Additionally her actions at court before becoming the Queen I believe made people angry. And maybe if what you say is true they said she was a whore it was do to their strong feelings for KOA. Post reply 2 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Holly2	66. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 13 2008, 4:35 PM EDT "She gave more to the poor as far as money - humm was that generosity or was it because the people did not love her so buying their love ?" Only Anne herself is qualified to answer that one. It could be either, or it could be a mixture of both, or there could have been other factors at play and a similar question could be asked about anybody else who gave to charity at the time or, indeed, at any time. Many royals and nobles did a lot for charity, and probably for a wide range of motives, not just generosity. It would be naive to suggest that it could never, ever have occured to any of Anne's predecessors or successors that their charitable work could help them win the love of the people and that this couldn't possibly have played a part in their charitable work. Do you think that Anne was the only Queen who would have wanted the people to love her? It's like when you give money to charities collecting on the streets; do you do it because you want to support the charity, because you feel put on the spot and uncomfortable refusing, because you want to ditch some loose change and this is as good a way as any, because it makes you feel good, because you'll get a badge that will tell the other 20 or so collectors lining the street to leave you alone since you've donated already, because you want to rack up some karmic Brownie points, etc? Post reply 2 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
funrod6	67. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 13 2008, 7:08 PM EDT "Only Anne herself is qualified to answer that one. It could be either, or it could be a mixture of both, or there could have been other factors at play and a similar question could be asked about anybody else who gave to charity at the time or, indeed, at any time. Many royals and nobles did a lot for charity, and probably for a wide range of motives, not just generosity. It would be naive to suggest that it could never, ever have occured to any of Anne's predecessors or successors that their charitable work could help them win the love of the people and that this couldn't possibly have played a part in their charitable work. Do you think that Anne was the only Queen who would have wanted the people to love her? It's like when you give money to charities collecting on the streets; do you do it because you want to support the charity, because you feel put on the spot and uncomfortable refusing, because you want to ditch some loose change and this is as good a way as any, because it makes you feel good, because you'll get a badge that will tell the other 20 or so collectors lining the street to leave you alone since you've donated already, because you want to rack up some karmic Brownie points, etc?" well if only Anne is qualified to answer that one (which I would agree) it sure does get answered alot on here as such. Just see the poster I was responding too. As for your question do I think that Anne was the only Queen who wanted people to love her. Well ummm no. However Anne had many more people who disliked her because of KOA. And before you take this as KOA vs AB, it would not have mattered who the second wife was. The people of England had a Queen they loved and saw devoted to them. For over 2 decades. Anne had much more to prove, or any other wife say it had been Mary,Anne etc. Whomever he chose to try and get his male heir from. I can only speak for myself when I give to some charity, or some homeless person on the street I do so because I feel it is the right thing to do. Not because I have to or because I have lose change. And I wont even indulge an arguement over karmic Brownie points. The point is, Anne was not liked at court. Do you really think that people liked her ? They adored her when there was a living breathing, kind compassionate Queen already married to the King? Or do you think they thought she to be a whore ? Now Im not saying she was a whore. But Im saying in that time that era what do you think the people of England thought ? Post reply 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
funrod6	68. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 13 2008, 7:09 PM EDT cont AND if you read my post it was in response to the person discussing ANNE BOLEYN giving more money. So shall you address that poster too with your "It's like when you give money to charities collecting on the streets; do you do it because you want to support the charity, because you feel put on the spot and uncomfortable refusing, because you want to ditch some loose change and this is as good a way as any, because it makes you feel good, because you'll get a badge that will tell the other 20 or so collectors lining the street to leave you alone since you've donated already, because you want to rack up some karmic Brownie points, etc?" Post reply 3 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
annethequene	69. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 6:14 PM EDT "cont AND if you read my post it was in response to the person discussing ANNE BOLEYN giving more money. So shall you address that poster too with your "It's like when you give money to charities collecting on the streets; do you do it because you want to support the charity, because you feel put on the spot and uncomfortable refusing, because you want to ditch some loose change and this is as good a way as any, because it makes you feel good, because you'll get a badge that will tell the other 20 or so collectors lining the street to leave you alone since you've donated already, because you want to rack up some karmic Brownie points, etc?" " I think what they were going for was trying to get you to put yourself in Anne's shoes. She's coming up with theoretical motives for Anne by bringing it into a context you likely understand well- who hasn't seen charities asking for donations at intersections? And Anne was loved before the thing with Henry happened. She was one of the most popular people at court before Henry decided he wanted her. She was well-liked until she found herself stuck in a situation she could not get out of. She had to roll with it because Henry was adamant and would not let her be. People saw that as wrong. Some because they loved KOA. Some because they hated her family. Some because they wondered if she would become the example. I don't think court wives really wanted to think about the possibility of being tossed aside arbitrarily for a younger woman. If KOA could be displaced, then ANYONE could. It was one thing when your husband had a mistress. It would be entirely another to be cast off and divorced, penniless with no way to live. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
howardfan	70. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 6:27 PM EDT "Anne Boleyn wasn't responsible for and did not support the dissolution of the monasteries, she wanted them to be reformed not closed. This is brought up in The Tudors when Anne tells Cromwell, "Our Reformation was never meant to be about personal gain, religious houses should not be sold off but converted to better uses". " oh thank you for posting this boudica :-) that is the truth as it was portrayed in the tudors quite well, that anne was not out for the dissolution of monastries or for personal gain. anyways did mary love henry? she was softer and sweet natured so we are told but then again it depends what u read but i dont think she appeared bitchy and heartless to me, the sexual encounter with francis was her own desire, but the henry thing was largely pushed and hinted at by her father and uncle howard, who is actually their grandfather as he was Elizabeth boleyn's father.... He was kathryn howards uncle, edmund howards elder brother who was kittys dad wow im way off track anyway, did she love him? Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Neveleo	71. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 6:30 PM EDT Whether Anne gave more money due to kindnes or for alterior motives - we will never know. Anne cannot answer that herself. I am sure she was not all bad though - and I am not surprised that she was desperate for the people to like/love her. KOA's shoes were hard ones to fill in the eyes of the people, and Anne never achieved that. She was known as a whore and 'Nan Bullen'. I have always found it interesting that Anne was referred to as a whore, when actually she staved off Henry's advances for years. The women who did sleep with him, such as Elizabeth Blount, were never criticised as whores in the way Anne was. Surely a woman who will not sleep with a man is the opposite of a whore??? And wouldn't we applaud a women these days who said she was not going to sleep with a married man until he was free to be hers - rather than having an affair? Just my opinion of course but I have always found that particular criticism of Anne odd and biased. She gained some respect from the people on her death though, one reason was that many people believed her to be innocent of the charges and another that she faced her death with unquestionable dignity (I would have been kicking and screaming lol!). Anne and KOA are my two favourite queens - perhaps a contardiction in terms but there you have it. I think the villain of the peace - for the whole of the story, all six wives, was Henry. I think respect is due to all six of the women unfortunate enough to have been married to him. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Jes89	72. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 6:38 PM EDT "Whether Anne gave more money due to kindnes or for alterior motives - we will never know. Anne cannot answer that herself. I am sure she was not all bad though - and I am not surprised that she was desperate for the people to like/love her. KOA's shoes were hard ones to fill in the eyes of the people, and Anne never achieved that. She was known as a whore and 'Nan Bullen'. I have always found it interesting that Anne was referred to as a whore, when actually she staved off Henry's advances for years. The women who did sleep with him, such as Elizabeth Blount, were never criticised as whores in the way Anne was. Surely a woman who will not sleep with a man is the opposite of a whore??? And wouldn't we applaud a women these days who said she was not going to sleep with a married man until he was free to be hers - rather than having an affair? Just my opinion of course but I have always found that particular criticism of Anne odd and biased. She gained some respect from the people on her death though, one reason was that many people believed her to be innocent of the charges and another that she faced her death with unquestionable dignity (I would have been kicking and screaming lol!). Anne and KOA are my two favourite queens - perhaps a contardiction in terms but there you have it. I think the villain of the peace - for the whole of the story, all six wives, was Henry. I think respect is due to all six of the women unfortunate enough to have been married to him. " I agree with you Neveleo!!! KOA and AB are my favourite queens too \o i hate when someone put one wife against other if the only guilty is Henry,he wasn't good father and was a horrible husband. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Neveleo	73. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 6:41 PM EDT "I agree with you Neveleo!!! KOA and AB are my favourite queens too \o i hate when someone put one wife against other if the only guilty is Henry,he wasn't good father and was a horrible husband. " Hear hear he was a monster!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Jes89	74. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 14 2008, 7:02 PM EDT "Hear hear he was a monster!!" True!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
RubysKid	75. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 20 2009, 12:31 PM EDT Everyone seems to assume that because Mary's affair was supposed to be well known that there would be evidence of it. I don't see how? Just because everyone was aware of the affair, where and how would it have been documented? He had a queen already who was documented. And who would document it? I think they had the long term affair. I think everyone was aware of it - I mean he named a boat after her - but I think everyone just accepted it and paid little mind. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Brooke9/7	76. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 20 2009, 2:32 PM EDT "anyways did mary love henry? she was softer and sweet natured so we are told but then again it depends what u read but i dont think she appeared bitchy and heartless to me, the sexual encounter with francis was her own desire, but the henry thing was largely pushed and hinted at by her father and uncle howard, who is actually their grandfather as he was Elizabeth boleyn's father.... He was kathryn howards uncle, edmund howards elder brother who was kittys dad wow im way off track anyway, did she love him?" Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk was Anne, Mary & george's uncle (not their grand daddy!). He was big brother to their mum, Elizabeth (nee Howard) Boleyn. He was also Kathryn Howard's uncle because he was also big brother to her daddy, poor Edmund Howard. Sorry, I had to question that grandfather statement. Cheerio! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
BoleynGirl	77. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 20 2009, 3:11 PM EDT "Hear hear he was a monster!!" I bet no one likes Henry!!! He was so cruel!!!!!!!!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
BoleynGirl	78. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 20 2009, 3:14 PM EDT "I didn't know much about Mary Boleyn, until I watched "The Other Boleyn Girl" last night. I felt so sorry for her as she was portrayed as someone who was in love with her husband, but her family forced her to go after Henry after falling for Anne initially failed. She then falls in love with Henry and Anne is jealous and seething when she sees Henry fall for her sister instead. Despite Anne's cruelty to her when she lures Henry away from her after Mary falls pregnant, Mary still supports Anne and "lies" for her about Anne's ex lover. Does anyone know if any of this is true? Did Mary really love Henry? Did Henry love her? Was Anne jealous that Henry fell for her sister? " I say only this...The other Boleyn girl is just a movie for entertainment!!! It has nothing to do with the real story!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
juliana-angela	79. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry? Oct 23 2009, 7:34 PM EDT "Everyone seems to assume that because Mary's affair was supposed to be well known that there would be evidence of it. I don't see how? Just because everyone was aware of the affair, where and how would it have been documented? He had a queen already who was documented. And who would document it? I think they had the long term affair. I think everyone was aware of it - I mean he named a boat after her - but I think everyone just accepted it and paid little mind. " I think that you are right. Mary and Henry may well have had an affair that went on for a few years, but that wouldn't have been unusual at the time. Most kings seem to have been relatively discreet - it wouldn't have been seen as a threat to the King's marriage and would only have been commented on if circumstances demanded it. Usually, that meant a child who was acknowleged - as in Henry's affair with Bessie Blount - but in Henry's case, it created an 'affinity' with Anne Boleyn which he had to declare when he wanted to marry her. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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