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Discussion: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?Reported This is a featured thread

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Boudica
Boudica
40. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 7 2008, 3:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 7 2008, 3:16 PM EDT
"I don't think so. So Mary ran off with Stafford and left poor, long-suffering William Carey alone, did she?"
That was one of the major sources of frustration for me watching that movie - they didn't show or mention William Carey's death. In fact my mom leaned over during the movie and asked, "What happened to her first husband?" Definately a goof on their part for not tying up loose ends before moving on to Stafford.
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Holly2
Holly2
41. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 7 2008, 3:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 7 2008, 3:23 PM EDT
"That was one of the major sources of frustration for me watching that movie - they didn't show or mention William Carey's death. In fact my mom leaned over during the movie and asked, "What happened to her first husband?" Definately a goof on their part for not tying up loose ends before moving on to Stafford."
Even a throwaway line would be better than nothing, some mention of Mary being a widow - how long would it have taken to add in an awkward "sorry your husband kicked the bucket" from somebody?
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annethequene
42. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 7 2008, 6:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 7 2008, 6:55 PM EDT
"Yes but I wonder what it must have felt like for Anne to have married someone that her sister bedded ? Maybe in those times it had no significant meaning. But looking at todays times, I dont see that happening much. Then again we are talking about becoming a Queen.
"
I would imagine it must have been awkward at the very least. But from what I can tell, she wasn't disturbed by Francois' casting her off, because she started right up again back in England. It probably wasn't very cheerful at first, but she seems the type to really bounce back from things.
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funrod6
funrod6
43. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 2:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 2:45 AM EDT
"thank you for speaking my mind dear wikikitty ^_^
not only did this movie have Americans portaying english history which is an attrocity in my opinion since the states was still being discovered (the new world) when this all took place, greggory also went on her own assumptions and created completely different imaginary personalites for each person in the film and book. While i have the book and find it a good read, Pgregoryy stuck with Retha m warnicke's views and assumptions which included george being gay as well as the couriters (supposedly) and anne being so desperate for a boy to have as heir with henry that she would have done just about ANYTHING
I love how starkey and ives debate this and see their versions of history as the most truthful and unbiased along with most of the national review on historcial accounts.

Yes also mary was not there at the execution, she did not aid anne or testify for her or against her during the trial and anne was said to be poised and confident when delivering her final speech. and you are so right, the dishy eric bana was too hot for henry lol but also had dark hair, was australian, although he made a better job of the show than the others, but still he was seen as downright stupid which he know if anything he wasnt, he was paranoid yes but not an idiot when it came to these things.

As for mary loving the king, i think not. She had already bedded francis king of france several times in the french court, ,and yes while she was the more subdued gentler one (and the more dosile) she was not a heroine who was defated in her affections for henry by her evil wicked sister anne boleyn. that whole story reads like a bad britney song, "my lonliness is killing me" "i still beleive when im not with you i lose my mind" LOL LOL
sorry to be so blunt but this is how i see it and after reading proper accounts i see mary as the sweet elder sister who the king tired of, enter ANNE"
Amercans portraying english history again ? This is surely a peeve of yours.
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howardfan
howardfan
44. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 2:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 2:57 AM EDT
not so, the script was badly written, therefore it would not matter the nationality of the actresses

also, I am only "peeved" when the accent is not done right, the same would be said for a kiwi or aussie portraying an american/canadian person
As long as the acting and accent is very well done then there is no problem, it is when the accent is bad that it is an annoyance to me

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Boudica
Boudica
45. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 11:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 11:05 AM EDT
I can understand your frustration with the accents and the acting it was a disapointment for me as well. I personally don't care for Scarlette Johanson in any historical role because I feel like I'm watching the same character over and over. As for the script (I hated it too) it was written by Peter Morgan, who is English, and adapted from the novel written by Phillipa Gregoy, who is also English. So it appears to me even Englishmen can mess up their own history without American intervention. 4  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    

annethequene
46. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 2:51 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 2:51 PM EDT
"I can understand your frustration with the accents and the acting it was a disapointment for me as well. I personally don't care for Scarlette Johanson in any historical role because I feel like I'm watching the same character over and over. As for the script (I hated it too) it was written by Peter Morgan, who is English, and adapted from the novel written by Phillipa Gregoy, who is also English. So it appears to me even Englishmen can mess up their own history without American intervention. "
The script was a constant annoyance for me, especially how the last 3/4 of the novel was rushed into a tiny last 1/4 of the movie, and how things were left out, and the 1/4 of the movie was essentially a collection of vignettes... and not well chosen ones.
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howardfan
howardfan
47. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 6:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 6:43 PM EDT
i agree, and the most irritating was the end scene when LOL mary ran out of the palace with elizabeth
YEAH RIGHT

oh and thomas howard working with jane boleyn, completely un realistic
she had her own agenda against her husband, that i get but thomas howard was a cruel and vindictive man out for his own gain
back then a womans opinion would not have meant anything to him, let alone jane boleyns
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Holly2
Holly2
48. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:00 PM EDT
"i agree, and the most irritating was the end scene when LOL mary ran out of the palace with elizabeth
YEAH RIGHT "
I perked up a little bit, to be honest. I figured that if Mary had just kidnapped the King's daughter, the next scene should involve her being beheaded (and I found Scarlett Johannsen a painfully irritating Mary) or at least locked away in a dungeon but no!

They just wanted to further build up Mary Boleyn by not only making her Henry's Twu Wuv but also crediting her with having raised England's greatest monarch.

I really shouldn't have bought snacks before going in to see that film...
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Neveleo
Neveleo
49. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:27 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:27 PM EDT
I also found Scarlett Johannsen annoying in the role.
I just thought the whole film was dire, both in terms of the terrible historical inaccuracy and the adaptation of the novel.
Like I said, what bothers me is that people might see this film and think those were the facts.
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funrod6
funrod6
50. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:31 PM EDT
"I also found Scarlett Johannsen annoying in the role.
I just thought the whole film was dire, both in terms of the terrible historical inaccuracy and the adaptation of the novel.
Like I said, what bothers me is that people might see this film and think those were the facts."
Well the movie was not accurate by all means. There were some facts to it. Which was both Boleyn girls sleeping with the King. And Daddy Dearest pushing them to do whatever needed to advance (makes me sick) what father does that. The movie itself not so good. But there were bits of facts in them. Its just like Gregorys works with the Constant Princess, half the book she had KOA talking to her dead husband Arthur.

I dont think many people at all liked the movie. When I watched it, it did make me feel more ICK for the Boleyns in general. But its just the dynamics of everything that happened.

With respect, because you know I do respect your opinion.

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howardfan
howardfan
51. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:43 PM EDT
well in all fairness what annoyed me the most was how the movie strayed from the book completely
they decided to do their own thing with the movie, therefore the script was horrendous
yes had scarlett portrayed mary properly then she would not have lived happily ever after with stafford and elizabeth, she would have been imprisoned for that but none of that was in the book, also none of that actually took place as the whole movie was false and inaccurate to the point of the ridiculous

so please dont base your opinion of anne on this movie or the book, as it shows the bad side of anne and mary as a sweet little kind virgin who was only sexual with henry and her first husband until the dashing stafford came along, oh and thomas boleyn was far to sweet in this movie, he loved anne and only spoke her praises and was present at her execution almost in tears, what was all that about????

the tudors portray a much more realistic thomas boleyn, although thomas howard thus far is far to nice and serene in the tudors, perhaps his evil side will come out in the AOC/Kitty season

i know he was pro jane seymour because of her pious catholic beleifs
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coronation
coronation
52. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:47 PM EDT
I liked the movie too fun ,I was able to take it for what it was-historical fiction. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Holly2
Holly2
53. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:49 PM EDT
"Well the movie was not accurate by all means. There were some facts to it. Which was both Boleyn girls sleeping with the King. And Daddy Dearest pushing them to do whatever needed to advance (makes me sick) what father does that. The movie itself not so good. But there were bits of facts in them. Its just like Gregorys works with the Constant Princess, half the book she had KOA talking to her dead husband Arthur.

I dont think many people at all liked the movie. When I watched it, it did make me feel more ICK for the Boleyns in general. But its just the dynamics of everything that happened.

With respect, because you know I do respect your opinion.

"
I think the movie was a case of a little history with a lot of fiction, rather than the reverse or even a balance of the two. The book, barring the characterizations of the main characters (I'd probably have given it three stars but for that, instead it got one) does capture life at court reasonably well and it does a fairly decent job of setting the scene as far as Henry's quest for an annulment and its longterm impact goes but the movie just glossed over that. They made gooey, sentimental part of the story their focus, and the general plot suffered.
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funrod6
funrod6
54. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:50 PM EDT
"well in all fairness what annoyed me the most was how the movie strayed from the book completely
they decided to do their own thing with the movie, therefore the script was horrendous
yes had scarlett portrayed mary properly then she would not have lived happily ever after with stafford and elizabeth, she would have been imprisoned for that but none of that was in the book, also none of that actually took place as the whole movie was false and inaccurate to the point of the ridiculous

so please dont base your opinion of anne on this movie or the book, as it shows the bad side of anne and mary as a sweet little kind virgin who was only sexual with henry and her first husband until the dashing stafford came along, oh and thomas boleyn was far to sweet in this movie, he loved anne and only spoke her praises and was present at her execution almost in tears, what was all that about????

the tudors portray a much more realistic thomas boleyn, although thomas howard thus far is far to nice and serene in the tudors, perhaps his evil side will come out in the AOC/Kitty season

i know he was pro jane seymour because of her pious catholic beleifs"
One thing that baffles me. And maybe someone can better explain it is this. Many times I read on here that Much of the Boleyns history, mainly Anne's was destroyed. So Im wondering how much of truth is in all of it. I mean if so much has been destroyed then what do we know. We dont even have an exact birth record of her. Certain details of her life if destroyed how can they be validated ? And I ask this with sincere curiosity.

And when you say Pious Catholic Beliefs are you using the word pious in a derogatory way ?
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Holly2
Holly2
55. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:54 PM EDT
"One thing that baffles me. And maybe someone can better explain it is this. Many times I read on here that Much of the Boleyns history, mainly Anne's was destroyed. So Im wondering how much of truth is in all of it. I mean if so much has been destroyed then what do we know. We dont even have an exact birth record of her. Certain details of her life if destroyed how can they be validated ? And I ask this with sincere curiosity.

And when you say Pious Catholic Beliefs are you using the word pious in a derogatory way ?"
We don't have an exact birth record of any of Henry's English wives; registration of births didn't become compulsory until 1538, but Anne does seem to have the biggest date range. Not everything was destroyed, so it's really a question of piecing together what is available, reading everything you can and making your own mind up about it - but that's true of everything in history.
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BoleynGirl13
BoleynGirl13
56. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 7:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 7:58 PM EDT
Hey all!

I think that Mary probably did not actually love Henry but named her son after him as a display of loyalty. As for her daughter Catherine, I think Mary named her thus becuase she felt disgust that she had betrayed a most beloved mistress. I don't think we'll ever know the truth behind their love affair. Bummer huh?
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funrod6
funrod6
57. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 8:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 8:02 PM EDT
"I liked the movie too fun ,I was able to take it for what it was-historical fiction."
the optimal word is historical - fiction...like I said I think there is always a sprinkle of truth to it. And what stands out for me is The Boleyns morals....I look at it this way, and Im taking KOA out of the picture.

What man tells his daughters to "do what they must" including sleeping around to make a political advancement. What daughter does this. And then when she fails the next daughter says "ok dad Im ready for duty ? I mean come on. I dont get it at all. Ahead of her times but in what way. Is it good to be a pawn in a manner that exploits women ? Anne wanted the power as much as her father. As for changing of the church, ANNE was not the only person responsible for this. I think regardless it was bound to happen. However it sure did help her to push that as an issue to well get Henry, and somehow come out attempting to smell like a rose. Many people assume that some people who do not respect Anne Boleyn only feel that way because of KOA. Not true,

Here I will give her some credit
She was smart - in terms of education'
She helped change the bible into english language
She gave more to the poor as far as money - humm was that generosity or was it because the people did not love her so buying their love ?
She was fashionable
She spoke her mind to people even MEN.
She gave birth to Elizabeth

Ok help me out here ?
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funrod6
funrod6
58. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 8:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 8:06 PM EDT
cont...sorry this was not to Coronations post...but the posts of the discussion of Mary,Anne etc...and history of sorts.
I have 4 FOUR books on Anne right now. I have Anne of a thousand days to watch. Im still not understanding it. Other than the fact that she was beheaded for horribly trumped up charges and she gave birth to a great ruler.

I dont get it.
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annethequene
59. RE: Mary Boleyn - did she love Henry?
Oct 8 2008, 11:44 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 8 2008, 11:44 PM EDT
"She gave more to the poor as far as money - humm was that generosity or was it because the people did not love her so buying their love ?
"
I don't think she was trying to buy their love. Its said that the first thing she'd do when her and Henry went to a new place was to inquire as to how she could help the poor, the churches, etc. And she gave away more money to charity in her three years as queen than Katherine did in 20... I think thats more than trying to buy love.
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