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Location: The Tudors Predictions for next season
Discussion: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
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 SemperEadem |
Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jun 9 2008, 2:06 PM EDT From The Tudors Prediction Page: How do you see the writers portraying Anne of Cleves in Season 3? Will she be strong-willed, or submissive? Will she purposefully drive Henry away, or will she watch helplessly as he removes her? Personally, I hope they show the strong-willed side. I always liked her, and goodness knows she got out of the Henry deal better than most of his wives. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Scarlett45 |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jun 9 2008, 5:06 PM EDT I would love it if AoC was secretly repulsed by Henry, but smart enough to hide it and get away with money and property- although POed that Henry would dare say such evil thigs about her. AoC was such an interesting character. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Holly2 |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jun 9 2008, 6:09 PM EDT Hopefully strong-willed, discouraging Henry if not actively driving him away. I'd also like to see apprehension on her part when she comes to England to marry Henry. His reputation as a husband was absolutely awful at that point, and not without cause. Do you find this valuable? |
 Hever |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jun 10 2008, 7:34 PM EDT "I would love it if AoC was secretly repulsed by Henry, but smart enough to hide it and get away with money and property- although POed that Henry would dare say such evil thigs about her. AoC was such an interesting character."I think that's exactly how they will portray it, providing they make Jrm repulsive. How they will manage that though I don't know. Do you find this valuable? |
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Evanescence1984 Evanescence1984 |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 3 2008, 3:52 PM EDT "From The Tudors Prediction Page:I think she will mostly be submissive, but I think she's be a little spunky too at times. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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cchudson cchudson |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 4 2008, 11:58 AM EDT "Hopefully strong-willed, discouraging Henry if not actively driving him away. I'd also like to see apprehension on her part when she comes to England to marry Henry. His reputation as a husband was absolutely awful at that point, and not without cause. "I think AoC had to be strong-willed to have survived her marriage/non-marriage to Henry VIII. I hope the she is portrayed this way. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 angelosdaughter |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 5 2008, 7:02 PM EDT "I think she will mostly be submissive, but I think she's be a little spunky too at times."Sometimes submissive is the way to go, and Anne of Cleves submitted to the KIng's will, allowed herself to be divorced and rewarded with castles and incomes as well as the company of the little Elizabeth whom she had learned to love. She was also rewarded with being next in order of prececence only to the Henry's Queen and his daughters over all other women of the court and lived loved and respected into the reign of Mary I. The queen ordered for her a royal burial in Westminster Abbey. Being strong-willed with Henry would have gained Anne nothing. We all know what method Henry chose of being rid of an inconvenient wife. She was a foreign princess with no recourse from the King's will. I think 'shrewd' and 'wise' would be better words to describe Anne of Cleves, as well as 'decent', 'honorable', and 'noble'. I hope she is portrayed with these qualities. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 XRachelORushX |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 17 2008, 12:49 AM EDT I hope Ann wil be strong willed, because of all the elements worknig against her,such as her not knowing any english, knowing nothing of the hard ways of English court life, let alone that of a queen...and her husband calling her ugly behind her back. But for some reason I always pictured her as submissive, mainly because she didnt speak English and barley commaned order in her chambers and didnt defend herself against what Henry Viii said of her ........Ann Boleyn would have wupped his ass Do you find this valuable? |
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angelosdaughter |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 17 2008, 11:24 AM EDT "I hope Ann wil be strong willed, because of all the elements worknig against her,such as her not knowing any english, knowing nothing of the hard ways of English court life, let alone that of a queen...and her husband calling her ugly behind her back.Anne Boleyn not only didn't 'whup his (Henry's) ass', she ended up without a head. Anne of Cleves may have behaved in a submissive manner, but sometimes it's better to pull one's horns in and make the best of a bad situation (as you say, she didn't speak English, she had no knowledge of English customs, much less English courl life), and she had a husband who did not like her and had absolute power over her. He had already beheaded one wife and imprisoned another. She had no powerful friends/relatives. Sometimes the path of least resistance is the wiser course, and Anne of Cleves took it. She submitted to the king's will and was granted estates, incomes and precedence over all women of the court except for Henry's current wife and his daughters. She outlived Henry, and was honored, a beloved figure to Henry's children and the English people, . Queen Mary I orderedf for Anne of Cleves the funeral of a queen and buried her with honor in Westminster Abbey. No other of Henry's wives fared so well. Do you find this valuable? |
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angelosdaughter |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Jul 17 2008, 1:51 PM EDT "I would love it if AoC was secretly repulsed by Henry, but smart enough to hide it and get away with money and property- although POed that Henry would dare say such evil thigs about her. AoC was such an interesting character."One of the books I read says that Henry was actually insulted at the ease with which Anne accepted his offers of a divorce and compensation for setting him free. It is just as possible that Anne was no more attracted to Henry than he was to her once she met him and observed his boorish manner, but she was contracted to him in a marriage arranged with her brother and Henry's representatves; she was not from a wealthy principality and David Starkey says that she was afraid her brother would 'slay' her if she returned to Germany.. Self-preservation demanded that she keep her private thoughts to herself. Only in her reaction to Henry's decision, i.e her readiness to accept compensation and the divorce and the finalization of the divorce, i.e. the return of her wedding ring instructing that it be destroyed as a 'thing of no force or value', as, indeed had been her marriage to Henry give a clue as to her real feelings. But, she survived to live well, while Henry would have more turmoil ahead in his life. Living well is said to be the best revenge. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 BF1964 |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 4 2008, 12:25 PM EDT "From The Tudors Prediction Page:I hope they show her for the canny, intelligent woman she was. She knew there was a very good likelihood of her ending up dead or at least shut up in some musty castle like poor old Katherine. Instead she had the presence of mind to see that going along with whatever Henry wanted was her best deal. That's not submissive, in her case that's a smart woman making the best out of a bad situation. Do you find this valuable? |
 Brunet |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 4 2008, 1:20 PM EDT "I would love it if AoC was secretly repulsed by Henry, but smart enough to hide it and get away with money and property- although POed that Henry would dare say such evil thigs about her. AoC was such an interesting character."I would love for Hirst to take that route with Anne. I've always fumed when reading about Henry's insults and complaint about her lack of physical attractiveness. A fat, middle aged man with puss-filled ulcers on his legs has no right to judge anyone's appearance. Obviously he suffered from the delusion of most older, powerful men. They still see themselves as God's gift to women. Anyway, Anne was obviously an intelligent woman. I think her portraying herself as the submissive, German house frau was a method of defense. She didn't understand the culture or language, and she was married to a man who had no scruples in trying to wriggle out of a marriage. In my opinion she got the best deal out of all Henry's wives, she kept her head, a generous allowance, and property. Do you find this valuable? |
 coronation |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 7 2008, 7:37 PM EDT I've always been mad to read what Henry sqaid about Anne aswell! Please, did they not have mirrors back then?! Poor Anne I wonder did she know what Henrys apperance was like before she met him? I read that she was repulsed by him the first time she saw him - dont know if this was true though?? He would have been obese by then. I also think she got the best deal out of Henrys wives. Although I wonder did she wish to have children? Do you find this valuable? |
 MsSquirrly |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 7 2008, 8:03 PM EDT "I've always been mad to read what Henry sqaid about Anne aswell! Please, did they not have mirrors back then?! Poor Anne I wonder did she know what Henrys apperance was like before she met him? I read that she was repulsed by him the first time she saw him - dont know if this was true though?? He would have been obese by then. I also think she got the best deal out of Henrys wives. Although I wonder did she wish to have children?"Check out the historical profile page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Anne+of+Cleves+Historical+Profile She seems to have been well liked and content with her life as it was. Especially as, women in those days were treated like chattels, she was a wealth woman with no man to tell her what to do and not having children meant she didnt have to go thru what most high born women went thru which was constant pregnancies and the possibility of puerpueral fevers which could kill you. All in all, she pretty much had the best life of all Henry's queens. Do you find this valuable? |
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angelosdaughter |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 8 2008, 12:58 AM EDT "Although I wonder did she wish to have children?"I've never read whether or not Anne of Cleves wanted children of her own, but she did ask Henry's permission to have the little Elizabeith visit with her often because she had fallen in love with the child. She said something to the effect that "To have had her (Elizabeth) for her daughter would have been greater happiness to her than being Queen." (Weir: "The Six Wives of Henry VIII".) Do you find this valuable? |
 lettice |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 8 2008, 3:32 PM EDT "From The Tudors Prediction Page:I think they'll show her smart side. Don't fight him and take what you can get! Do you find this valuable? |
 kakow |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 9 2008, 10:55 PM EDT Excerpt from Anne of Cleves Historical Profile: "...Lady Anne was looking out of a window to see the bull-baiting which was going on in the courtyard, and suddenly he embraced and kissed her, and showed here a token which the King had sent her for New Year's gift, and she being abashed and not knowing who it was thanked him, and so he spoke with her. But she regarded him little, but always looked out the window.... and when the King saw that she took so little notice of his coming he went into another chamber and took off his cloak and came in again in a coat of purple velvet. And when the lords and knights saw his grace they did him reverence.... and then her grace humbled herself lowly to the king's majesty..." I've always loved this description of their first meeting. What a blow to 'ole Henry's ego! I SO hope this scene is in season 3. Do you find this valuable? |
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lettice |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 10 2008, 9:19 AM EDT "Excerpt from Anne of Cleves Historical Profile: "...Lady Anne was looking out of a window to see the bull-baiting which was going on in the courtyard, and suddenly he embraced and kissed her, and showed here a token which the King had sent her for New Year's gift, and she being abashed and not knowing who it was thanked him, and so he spoke with her. But she regarded him little, but always looked out the window.... and when the King saw that she took so little notice of his coming he went into another chamber and took off his cloak and came in again in a coat of purple velvet. And when the lords and knights saw his grace they did him reverence.... and then her grace humbled herself lowly to the king's majesty..." I've always loved this description of their first meeting. What a blow to 'ole Henry's ego! I SO hope this scene is in season 3."It should be. It was that first meeting that set the stage for Henry's first impression of A of C. His mighty ego was bruised leading to his response: " I like her not!" Do you find this valuable? |
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coronation |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 10 2008, 3:43 PM EDT Poor Anne can you imagine being kissed by that obese brute?!! Go her for letting Henry know what he really looked like,even if it was done accidently without knowing who he was. Do you find this valuable? |
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lettice |
RE: Anne of Cleves: Strong-willed or Submissive?
Aug 11 2008, 3:00 PM EDT "Poor Anne can you imagine being kissed by that obese brute?!! Go her for letting Henry know what he really looked like,even if it was done accidently without knowing who he was."Anne's untoward reaction set the stage for their relationship. Henry made sure everyone was aware of his dislike for A of C. Do you think it would have been more positive had they first met under different circumstances? Do you find this valuable? |