Sign in or 

|
Holly2 |
40. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jun 27 2008, 10:02 AM EDT
"Technically all of Henry's wives had a bit of royal blood, they were all descentants of Edward I, even Anne of Cleves. Half of them, Katherine of Aragon, Jane Seymour, Catherine Parr were descentants of Edward III. In fact, Jane Seymour was a fifth cousin three times removed of her husband, and they needed a dispensation in order to marry because of their relatedness. But I see what you mean, KoA and AoC were the only wives who were members of a ruling dynasty."The dispensation they got was for affinity in the third degree - second cousins - so it's more probable that it refers to a previous relationship Henry had with one of Jane's relatives. Do you find this valuable? |
|
gilgamasheck |
41. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jun 27 2008, 10:09 AM EDT
I agree Holly2. Well if we technically go by "royal blood" literally then many of us will fit into that category. Especially those of us from Germany and the former HRE. I did mean of a ruling dynasty. But also where does one draw the line for royal blood and not simply having a royal ancestor. Isn't the blue diluted from the blood after a while or even gone?
1
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
Boudica |
42. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jun 27 2008, 10:21 AM EDT
"But also where does one draw the line for royal blood and not simply having a royal ancestor. Isn't the blue diluted from the blood after a while or even gone? "Certainly it does, not that I'm an expert on modern royality but I don't think having Edward I as your ancestor makes a lick of difference. But certainly in the sixteenth century, nobles of whatever level in court would use their blue blood connections not only as bragging rights but also as one might use good connections in a resume today. Being related to the ruling dynasty gave you a shoe in, where as if you got your status from being "new money" you weren't seen by the blue bloods as important, unless ofcourse they were lacking in funds and needed a marriage connection to people with money. Also, being a descendant of a rival dynasty (ie. the Plantagenants) can be very detrimental. The Tudors executed several descendants of the Plantagenants during their reigns in order to protect their dynasty from rivals to the throne. Do you find this valuable? |
|
lettice |
43. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jun 27 2008, 10:58 AM EDT
"I agree Holly2. Well if we technically go by "royal blood" literally then many of us will fit into that category. Especially those of us from Germany and the former HRE. I did mean of a ruling dynasty. But also where does one draw the line for royal blood and not simply having a royal ancestor. Isn't the blue diluted from the blood after a while or even gone? "People at the time were valued (or de-valued)according to their ancestry. Connections always count, even today. However, I always admire people who become valuable members of society based on their own hard work. It doesn't take much to be born into money or status. Do you find this valuable? |
|
Evanescence1984 |
44. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 3 2008, 1:46 PM EDT
"I believe Anne of Cleves was probably attractive. It was more her strange dress, her lack of proficiency in English as well as the accepted social graces of the time and her reaction when the obese, middle aged Henry tried to pay her a surprise visit. He also blamed his impotence on her instead of on himself as he didn't do much better with the pretty and pert Katherine Howard."I've actually read that Anne of Cleves was beautiful and was misrepresented by being said she wasn't attractive. There is a painting of her done by Hans Holbein and Henry agrees to marry her. Part of the reason he divorced her was because she was German and couldn't speak a lick of English. In the portrait I think she's pretty and henry must have found her somewhat attractive to even consider marrying her. Do you find this valuable? |
|
Evanescence1984 |
45. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 3 2008, 1:51 PM EDT
"I predict that Anne of Cleves will probably be made somewhat plain as JRM probably will not wear a fatsuit. If H-8 isn't depicted as bloated and awful, Anne of Cleves won't have reason to recoil from him in disgust. So, Anne will be plain and unsophisticated....but not absolutely ugly. Henry will have to debase himself by telling Parliament and the world that he is impotent with Anne and cannot consummate the marriage in order to get out of said marriage. This blow to Henry's ego and the fact that Cromwell fatally forgot that Henry has to be attracted to and "in love" with his wives will spell doom for Cromwell.Actually, she wasn't married and executed on the same day. From what I've read they were married for almost two years before she was executed. Do you find this valuable? |
|
MsSquirrly |
46. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 3 2008, 2:41 PM EDT
"Actually, she wasn't married and executed on the same day. From what I've read they were married for almost two years before she was executed."well I think the poster was referring to the execution of Thomas Cromwell happening the same day as Henry & Katherine Howard's wedding...not her execution. That happened 19 months later. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Evanescence1984 |
47. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 3 2008, 3:08 PM EDT
Possibly, I know he was executed after his divorce to Anne of Cleves.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
Evanescence1984 |
48. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 3 2008, 3:11 PM EDT
"I agree Holly2. Well if we technically go by "royal blood" literally then many of us will fit into that category. Especially those of us from Germany and the former HRE. I did mean of a ruling dynasty. But also where does one draw the line for royal blood and not simply having a royal ancestor. Isn't the blue diluted from the blood after a while or even gone? "I'm not sure if your literally referring to blood being blue or not, but if you are blood is really blue and turns red when it hits oxygen. If your referring to ancestry blood, then once your in a family your always in that family if related by blood. 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
MsCandela |
49. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 4 2008, 1:10 PM EDT
"I predict that Anne of Cleves will probably be made somewhat plain as JRM probably will not wear a fatsuit. If H-8 isn't depicted as bloated and awful, Anne of Cleves won't have reason to recoil from him in disgust. So, Anne will be plain and unsophisticated....but not absolutely ugly. Henry will have to debase himself by telling Parliament and the world that he is impotent with Anne and cannot consummate the marriage in order to get out of said marriage. This blow to Henry's ego and the fact that Cromwell fatally forgot that Henry has to be attracted to and "in love" with his wives will spell doom for Cromwell.I do hope that they cast someone who isn't a real beauty, as everyone on this show is just too darned good looking! LOL And I also hope that JRM does wear a fat suit. Some people feel that they should have cast someone who looked more like Henry but I'd rather see someone who can act portray him instead. We all know what Henry looked like, we're not children, we can use our imaginations a little bit, can't we? But on the other hand, to keep JRM slim throughout the seasons would be asking us to stretch our imaginations a bit much. Put a fat suit on him and let him show his true acting skills. He's got 'em. Do you find this valuable? |
|
MsSquirrly |
50. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 4 2008, 1:53 PM EDT
"Possibly, I know he was executed after his divorce to Anne of Cleves."Check out the timeline here on the wiki : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Timeline Cromwell was most certainly executed the same day as Henry & Katherine's wedding. Now THATS gruesome. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
MsSquirrly |
51. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 4 2008, 1:56 PM EDT
"I do hope that they cast someone who isn't a real beauty, as everyone on this show is just too darned good looking! LOL And I also hope that JRM does wear a fat suit. Some people feel that they should have cast someone who looked more like Henry but I'd rather see someone who can act portray him instead. We all know what Henry looked like, we're not children, we can use our imaginations a little bit, can't we? But on the other hand, to keep JRM slim throughout the seasons would be asking us to stretch our imaginations a bit much. Put a fat suit on him and let him show his true acting skills. He's got 'em. "I reckon he will get stocky...not totally as fat as Henry who was 300lbs at his biggest because it might look ridiculous but perhaps just some padding around the middle would look ok. And like you said JRM can definitely show how greedy & out of control he became. Do you find this valuable? |
|
HistoryWitch |
52. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 4 2008, 7:28 PM EDT
"I do hope that they cast someone who isn't a real beauty, as everyone on this show is just too darned good looking! LOL And I also hope that JRM does wear a fat suit. Some people feel that they should have cast someone who looked more like Henry but I'd rather see someone who can act portray him instead. We all know what Henry looked like, we're not children, we can use our imaginations a little bit, can't we? But on the other hand, to keep JRM slim throughout the seasons would be asking us to stretch our imaginations a bit much. Put a fat suit on him and let him show his true acting skills. He's got 'em. "I hope that they show Anne blosson especially after her "adoption" as good sister. I think that she was good-looking if not a raving beuaty. Although she came from a Ducal family it was a backwater, I beleive her fanily were extremely Lutheran and in that we can picture the ancestor of a puritan lass ofthe 17th century. The style of dress, hair, everything was probably 50 yrs behind Eng. and in no way accentuated any of the appeal that Holbein saw. Remember that when KofA came her clothing was considered ghastly. Sorry, laptop out of gas. Chat later. Do you find this valuable? |
|
angelosdaughter |
53. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 5 2008, 6:18 PM EDT
"well I think the poster was referring to the execution of Thomas Cromwell happening the same day as Henry & Katherine Howard's wedding...not her execution. That happened 19 months later."You are right, MsSquirrly; Cromwell was executed on Henry and Katharine H's wedding day. Do you find this valuable? |
|
angelosdaughter |
54. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 5 2008, 6:21 PM EDT
Sorry, I hit the post button before I intended to. The reason for Cromwell's conviction and execution was rooted in the Anne of Cleves marriage debacle. It was Cromwell who promoted the match, set it up, and insisted that Henry honor it when he balked, for which Henry never forgave him.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
angelosdaughter |
55. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Jul 5 2008, 6:38 PM EDT
"Maybe after being summarily rejected by the other women he chased - and I would love it if they throw in the line about Christina of Milan not wanting to marry him because she only has one head - he'll be confidently expecting Anne of Cleves (pretty but not a beauty like Anne Boleyn) to be delighted to get to be his bride and, when she is less than enthusiastic, his pride gets hurt.I think Anne of Cleves was prettier than most of Henry's wives, but her inablility to speak English, her old-fashioned style of dress, strange to English eyes, and perhaps her clumsy foreign manners/mannerisms gave an unfavorable impression, and may even have reminded him of the other foreign princess he married, Katharine of Aragon. After all, except for the clothing and face, a portrait cannot convey manners/mannerisms or a foreign accent that can affect the perception of a person when met face-to-face. I think that when Henry saw Anne in person as a total package, there just was no chemistry that attracted him to her. However, he did not have to be such a beast in his treatment of her. On the other hand, Anne of Cleves' tactful handling of the situation redounded to her credit. She behaved more nobly than Henry, and in the end it all worked out in her favor. She became wealthy and respected, stood next only to the Queen and Henry's daughters in precedence over all other females in the royal court. She had the King as a brother/friend, but stood in no danger from him in the way she would have as a wife of his, AND she outlived him, as Katharine Parr did. Anne really got the best of the situation. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
theothertudorgirl |
56. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Aug 20 2008, 7:51 AM EDT
May I say that the only reason he thought Anne of Cleves was ugly was because she was different. She had bigger breasts than the rest of his wives and also had a tan complexion. These things were not in style in those days but if it were today you would be one of the most beautiful. Funny how times change!
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
leblonka |
57. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Aug 20 2008, 1:02 PM EDT
Well the claim is that her portrait made her look more attractive than she was...but from what I've read I think that it was more that Anne of Cleves didn't fit into Henry's court. She was raised to be into more domestic things, and so she didn't enjoy the music and poetry that was so popular in Henry's court. She also dressed and behaved differently.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
heverhoney |
58. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Aug 20 2008, 7:46 PM EDT
"Well the claim is that her portrait made her look more attractive than she was...but from what I've read I think that it was more that Anne of Cleves didn't fit into Henry's court. She was raised to be into more domestic things, and so she didn't enjoy the music and poetry that was so popular in Henry's court. She also dressed and behaved differently. "There is another painting that was done of her (I believe by Holbein as well), that it was revealed that a much larger nose was hidden under the top layer of paint--and it had been painted over with a smaller, more appealing version. She was also said to have been marked by small pox, which is also something that wouldn't have been feattured in a painting. Unlike photographs, when it comes to paintings there is that unknown factor of what happens when an image is filtered through the eyes of an artist. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
HouseCat |
59. RE: Will Anne of Cleves be made beautiful...
Aug 20 2008, 10:08 PM EDT
"I hope they show There is another painting that was done of her (I believe by Holbein as well), that it was revealed that a much larger nose was hidden under the top layer of paint--and it had been painted over with a smaller, more appealing version. She was also said to have been marked by small pox, which is also something that wouldn't have been feattured in a painting. Unlike photographs, when it comes to paintings there is that unknown factor of what happens when an image is filtered through the eyes of an artist. "Who knows what these jokers envision. I've read of the altered portrait and I'm sure it's true. But it's also possible that Holbein felt he had misrepresented her. This is what I've read & also what makes sense to me: AofC was no beauty but was certainly not without her admirers. There was an extended delay crossing the Channel which could not have helped her stress level; when they finally crossed the weather was probably still pretty bad. She was dressed in an unbecoming and obsolete fashion that was considered not only dowdy but "common". She was only beginning to grasp English at all. In short, the woman was not at her best. Then in rushes that paragon of Kingly perfection, who has shall we say gone downhill?, and he's rightously indignant at her failure to be entranced by him. Well of course she must be ugly, stupid and unattrative! I hope they show her as a plain but NOT ugly girl at home, unattractive at the notorious meeting, losing any appeal while at Henry's horrible court and then as an increasingly appealing woman as she can finally relax and come into her own in her like as the King's "good sister" She shouldn't be a beauty but, like me at least, a woman whose circumstances can make all the difference. O Lucky Wife! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |