Location: Sir Thomas Boleyn, Earl of Wiltshire

Discussion: Why Thomas Boleyn SurvivedReported This is a featured thread

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Holly2
Holly2
41. RE: Why Thomas Boleyn Survived
Jan 15 2009, 5:00 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 15 2009, 5:00 PM EST
"BTW all these Norfolks are confusing the hell out of me! I know one was Anne's uncle and I believe but am not sure that his son was the Duke/Earl/Sir Surrey or something like that and he was executed...do I have that right. Then Elizabeth had to execute one of them. "
Doesn't help that so many of them used the same first name too, does it? The title of Earl of Surrey was also held by the Dukes of Norfolk, so it was used as a courtesy title by the heir apparent. To make matters more confusing, the title of Duke of Norfolk was temporarily lost to the Howards, only to be restored around 1514, so Anne's grandfather was Earl of Surrey until then.

The Norfolk on the show is the 3rd Duke, then his son, Henry Howard, was Earl of Surrey - there's a biography out on him, Henry VIII's Last Victim - but he predeceased his father so it was his son, another Thomas Howard, who became the 4th Duke and he was the one executed during Elizabeth's reign.
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karenofbethany
karenofbethany
42. RE: Why Thomas Boleyn Survived
Jan 15 2009, 6:39 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 15 2009, 6:39 PM EST
"Only the good die young...

I was a bit miffed that they didn't show anne's mother. I would have loved to see her, being a howard born-and-raised. I would have loved to see her reaction to what her husband had done."
In the movie "The Other Boyelyn Girl" she is seen as unwilling subservient to the dad and she gets more and more upset as events progress. There's another movie "The Other Boyelyn Girls" (you can see it on Youtube) with Jodhi May where she is portrayed as totally unfeeling and unsympathetic. Supposedly these two portrayals are fiction but certainly interesting to watch. Movies do give us a chance to say, "Oh! If I were (him) (her) I would have done _________fill in the blank)" but of course we really can't say what we would have done, though I feel strongly I would kill for my kids (who are grown boys now).
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tudorcrazy
tudorcrazy
43. RE: Why Thomas Boleyn Survived
Jan 15 2009, 9:39 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 15 2009, 9:39 PM EST
Parenting was so different then. I would kill for my kids too, and most parents today feel the same, i.e. "soccer moms." However, I think that parents then dealt with the reality of a very high rate of stillborns, and most children rarely lived through toddler stages. Today, childhood diseases are alsost non existant. I remember having measles, and croop, and mumps etc, but with modern medicine, most of the children in the modern age never even get these things. They were fatal, and so parents were prepared for the inevitalbility of their child not surviving. past infancy.To deal with that, they had multipled children, and hoped for the best.
In addition, they had servants who wet nursed them, tutored them, surpervised their activites, and generally were their parents. I just finished Alison Weir book The Lady Elizabeth, and she had her nanny until and after she was coronated. How could a parent have the same attachment, compared to today's standards. Most parents have total responsibility for their children, even with help, and Fathers take a very active role in their upbringing. We are applying modern outlooks, to a completely different time, and reality. Children were rarely a source of pride, but just a link to continue a family dynasty, and prosperity. But, I still think Thomas was a monster, but he did make sure that Anne had the finest education by having her trained in the courts of Austria and France. He knew Anne was brilliant and accomplished, that's why he turned away from her sister Mary, who was more beautiful, and sweet tempered. She wasn't tough enough, to make the grade in a viscious court.
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karenofbethany
karenofbethany
44. RE: Why Thomas Boleyn Survived
Jan 15 2009, 9:47 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 15 2009, 9:47 PM EST
"Parenting was so different then. I would kill for my kids too, and most parents today feel the same, i.e. "soccer moms." However, I think that parents then dealt with the reality of a very high rate of stillborns, and most children rarely lived through toddler stages. Today, childhood diseases are alsost non existant. I remember having measles, and croop, and mumps etc, but with modern medicine, most of the children in the modern age never even get these things. They were fatal, and so parents were prepared for the inevitalbility of their child not surviving. past infancy.To deal with that, they had multipled children, and hoped for the best.
In addition, they had servants who wet nursed them, tutored them, surpervised their activites, and generally were their parents. I just finished Alison Weir book The Lady Elizabeth, and she had her nanny until and after she was coronated. How could a parent have the same attachment, compared to today's standards. Most parents have total responsibility for their children, even with help, and Fathers take a very active role in their upbringing. We are applying modern outlooks, to a completely different time, and reality. Children were rarely a source of pride, but just a link to continue a family dynasty, and prosperity. But, I still think Thomas was a monster, but he did make sure that Anne had the finest education by having her trained in the courts of Austria and France. He knew Anne was brilliant and accomplished, that's why he turned away from her sister Mary, who was more beautiful, and sweet tempered. She wasn't tough enough, to make the grade in a viscious court."
Great, interesting and helpful post. Pondering the differences between then and now, and attachment to children. Why, I wonder, did this continue when the parents had probably suffered the same ill-effects (lack of love) and would hopefully not carry it on to their children...? What fodder for a renaissance Jerry Springer Show! I can see Henry VIII whining "Well, they loved Arthur better and I was just the second son and I have this rage..." THen they bring the living wives out and they duke it out. LOL. Thank you for pointing out Anne's education, etc., I am always willing and hopeful to find something redeeming in every person and at least Thomas B. didn't murder her or sleep with her himself, which is not uncommon in todays society.
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