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Mark Smeaton
Discussion: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
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 rpshaf |
Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 21 2008, 9:32 AM EDT Smeaton was not sleeping with Anne, but George. Thanks for the producers taking this subject on, and hopefully will get additional coverage - including more skin! 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
 MsSquirrly |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 21 2008, 12:09 PM EDT "Smeaton was not sleeping with Anne, but George. Thanks for the producers taking this subject on, and hopefully will get additional coverage - including more skin!"well its not based in historical fact. The real George Boleyn was known as a bit of a womanizer and not gay but the creator of this show has taken quite a few liberties with the true story line. Still who knows eh? None of us were actually there to see what happened behind closed doors. To each his own. However it is generally accepted that George was falsely accused of incest with his sister. and Smeaton was the only one who admitted his guilt which most historians believe was due to being tortured, As for Smeaton being gay...that too has no support in historical fact. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Boudica |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 21 2008, 12:17 PM EDT "well its not based in historical fact. The real George Boleyn was known as a bit of a womanizer and not gay but the creator of this show has taken quite a few liberties with the true story line. Still who knows eh? None of us were actually there to see what happened behind closed doors. To each his own.Not only that but, in those dark times, sodomy was a captial crime and people were executed and tortured if they were "out". :( 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Ginalovestudors |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 21 2008, 1:10 PM EDT I have too agree with Boudica and Ms Squirrly , George was not gay and as far as I know he was married too Jane Parker ,Where is she at in the show we have not seen her yet and she plays a big part in undoing of Anne and her brother,since she hated Anne and George being so close. I guess the gay thing is because some viewers are gay and want to see representation of the homosexuality that could have been , I agree that it was looked at as a sin to be gay ,but of couse so was having a child out of wedlock and Anne and Henry did that so anything goes I don't care, I just am wondering when Jane parker will show up. And when did Brandon have a son? 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boudica |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 21 2008, 1:55 PM EDT " I guess the gay thing is because some viewers are gay and want to see representation of the homosexuality that could have been , I agree that it was looked at as a sin to be gay ,but of couse so was having a child out of wedlock and Anne and Henry did that so anything goes I don't care, I just am wondering when Jane parker will show up. And when did Brandon have a son?"I think you're right about why Showtime has portrayed Mark and George as gay / bisexual - to attract the same audience demographic as other hit cable shows like "Queer as Folk" or "The L Word" (I'm a huge fan of that later, in fact!) It's probably the reason why William Compton and Thomas Tallis were depicted as gay / bisexual in the first season - again, no historical evidence they were homosexual, it's just another plot twist that the creators decided upon. If anybody's interested in Gay History, there's a link for Richard Norton's essays on the subject, many of these are during the Renaissance. http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/gayhist.htm This is a particularly good one on homophobia during the Middle Ages / Renaissance, it gives you an idea just how dangerous life could be for non-heterosexual people. http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/homopho4.htm 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Holly2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 22 2008, 3:14 PM EDT "I have too agree with Boudica and Ms Squirrly , George was not gay and as far as I know he was married too Jane Parker ,Where is she at in the show we have not seen her yet and she plays a big part in undoing of Anne and her brother,since she hated Anne and George being so close. I guess the gay thing is because some viewers are gay and want to see representation of the homosexuality that could have been , I agree that it was looked at as a sin to be gay ,but of couse so was having a child out of wedlock and Anne and Henry did that so anything goes I don't care, I just am wondering when Jane parker will show up. And when did Brandon have a son?"Brandon had a son by Princess Mary Tudor (Margaret on the show) - Henry Brandon, Earl of Lincoln. He was about a month younger than Henry and Katherine's daughter Mary, and died in 1534, when Princess Elizabeth was a baby. He also had two sons by his last wife, Henry (b. 1535) and Charles (b. 1537). They died an hour apart, so the younger brother holds the record for the shortest tenure of a British peerage. I'm very curious about how it's going to work out regarding Anne's conviction for adultery, if it's going to be a misunderstanding or a set-up; three out of her five accused lovers are accounted for, (four if the old man called Norris who let Wolsey use his room in Season One was meant to be Sir Henry Norris) but so far, two of them are gay and the third is trying to kill Anne. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boudica |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 22 2008, 3:41 PM EDT As I said in another thread on the subject, I have a suspicision that Showtime might be building off a theory by Tudor historian Retha Warnicke, who thought some or all of the five men accused of adultery with Anne couldn't be guilty because they were homosexual. I think "The Tudors" might be doing something similar in order to show that Anne was implicated on false charges because the men she was accused with were either gay (George and Mark) or trying to kill her (Brereton). Found another link on "sex crimes" in Tudor England, if anybody's interested. http://www.fathom.com/feature/121749/index.html 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 22 2008, 3:53 PM EDT "As I said in another thread on the subject, I have a suspicision that Showtime might be building off a theory by Tudor historian Retha Warnicke, who thought some or all of the five men accused of adultery with Anne couldn't be guilty because they were homosexual. I think "The Tudors" might be doing something similar in order to show that Anne was implicated on false charges because the men she was accused with were either gay (George and Mark) or trying to kill her (Brereton).That's an interesting theory. Since 'The Tudors' has been renewed, it's possible that the producers may want to keep Henry somewhat redeemable. They built up the love story between himself and Anne in Season One and did a great job with it, but it's hard to imagine that anyone could not hate Henry if they see him casually toss the woman he loved enough to break with Rome for to the wolves, along with five innocent men because he wants to move on to Jane Seymour (woman hasn't even made an appearance and I already loathe her) but, if they can finesse it right, a conspiracy orchestrated by Catholics and the Seymours to discredit Anne, combined with an element of misunderstanding could make it look as though Henry believes Anne to be guilty. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Ginalovestudors |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 22 2008, 9:55 PM EDT I agree I hate Jane already too I just can't stand that Anne will be gone she is so much a part of the show and she is so pretty and I just hate too think of Henry with Jane she is not half the woman that Anne is and had no grace or style. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 23 2008, 3:32 PM EDT "I agree I hate Jane already too I just can't stand that Anne will be gone she is so much a part of the show and she is so pretty and I just hate too think of Henry with Jane she is not half the woman that Anne is and had no grace or style."Look on the bright side - we hopefully won't have to put up with her for long; the marriage lasted less than a year and a half before Jane died. They can cover that in two episodes and, if we're lucky, they'll concentrate on the Pilgrimage of Grace instead of on Jane. Do you find this valuable? |
 miller-pvkk |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 23 2008, 3:43 PM EDT "I agree I hate Jane already too I just can't stand that Anne will be gone she is so much a part of the show and she is so pretty and I just hate too think of Henry with Jane she is not half the woman that Anne is and had no grace or style."As I understand it, Jane could not even read or write. The most she could do was sign her name. After having two extremely intelligent and educated wives, wasn't this hard for Henry to stomach? Also, unlike Anne, I've never heard that she had any musical talent, and she certainly wasn't considered witty or charming. I guess that Henry was ready for a mousy, dull little thing, after being married to two extremely strong women. That's certainly what he got. Also, while there aren't many pictures of Jane, the one that we tend to see over and over is awful. I know that we have to account for lack of make-up and different hair styles, etc., but she really does appear to be a plain Jane. Obviously, appearance isn't everything, but what else was there for Henry to find so attractive? Maybe she was a really sweet person, and there is a lot to be said for that!!! The woman who will be playing Jane Seymour in the series is actually quite beautiful. I wonder who they'll hire to play Anne of Cleves? In an attempt to be accurate, every single person in the series shouldn't be depicted as drop dead gorgeous. And sooner or later, Henry needs to start aging. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 23 2008, 3:47 PM EDT "As I understand it, Jane could not even read or write. The most she could do was sign her name. After having two extremely intelligent and educated wives, wasn't this hard for Henry to stomach?"Honestly, I wonder what the marriage would have been like if Jane had survived. I can't imagine that it would have been a happy one. Henry would have been bored of her, but he wouldn't have been able to get rid of her because of Edward. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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miller-pvkk |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 23 2008, 4:48 PM EDT "Honestly, I wonder what the marriage would have been like if Jane had survived. I can't imagine that it would have been a happy one. Henry would have been bored of her, but he wouldn't have been able to get rid of her because of Edward."Very true. Her position would have probably been very secure as Edward's mother, no matter how bored Henry was with her. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Ginalovestudors |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 24 2008, 5:14 PM EDT I have to agree with you on all of that, She would have been very secure being the Mother of the Heir ,Am sure he would have started seeing other women as he always did I think her was never happy with just one woman after Anne B ,but I still think Anne was the passion of his life ,u don't spend 6yrs trying to get someone to marry u if your not in love with them. And give up your friends your family all for the love of one woman. Anne indeed was a smart and strong person we will never know how it could have been I wish she would have lived ,but funny how history goes she is the most talked about of his 6 wives and the most hated and loved and in the end she had the last laugh she had QUEEN ELIAZBETH 1 that was her gift too England. Do you find this valuable? |
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miller-pvkk |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 24 2008, 8:20 PM EDT "I have to agree with you on all of that, She would have been very secure being the Mother of the Heir ,Am sure he would have started seeing other women as he always did I think her was never happy with just one woman after Anne B ,but I still think Anne was the passion of his life ,u don't spend 6yrs trying to get someone to marry u if your not in love with them. And give up your friends your family all for the love of one woman. Anne indeed was a smart and strong person we will never know how it could have been I wish she would have lived ,but funny how history goes she is the most talked about of his 6 wives and the most hated and loved and in the end she had the last laugh she had QUEEN ELIAZBETH 1 that was her gift too England. "Yes, in a way Anne was the sacrificial lamb, because without her England would have not had Elizabeth. I also think you're right that Anne Boleyn was the love of Henry's life. Henry was a very passionate man, but I really don't think he ever loved as well as hated anyone as much as he did Anne. Whether intentional or not, Anne elicited an incredible range of emotions from Henry, and the course of European history changed as a result. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 antoinette2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 24 2008, 10:41 PM EDT "That's an interesting theory. Since 'The Tudors' has been renewed, it's possible that the producers may want to keep Henry somewhat redeemable. They built up the love story between himself and Anne in Season One and did a great job with it, but it's hard to imagine that anyone could not hate Henry if they see him casually toss the woman he loved enough to break with Rome for to the wolves, along with five innocent men because he wants to move on to Jane Seymour (woman hasn't even made an appearance and I already loathe her)"It's too bad they are laying "the gay card" as if that were the reason. Not that I care if these guys were gay but let's stick with the historical stuff. Smeaton was tortured people! The rest were nobles and not tortured but if you were some small time, social climbing musician, and they racked you, and God know whatever else, you would probably say whatever they wanted you too. No doubt , they promised him freedom if he confesses. He was the weakest link and the easiest to control. It had nothing to do if he were gay or not. I sort of resent them taking these historic figures, such as Thomas Tallis who I revere as an composer, and making them swing both ways when there really isn't any historical information. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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miller-pvkk |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 25 2008, 3:04 AM EDT "It's too bad they are laying "the gay card" as if that were the reason. Not that I care if these guys were gay but let's stick with the historical stuff. Smeaton was tortured people! The rest were nobles and not tortured but if you were some small time, social climbing musician, and they racked you, and God know whatever else, you would probably say whatever they wanted you too. No doubt , they promised him freedom if he confesses. He was the weakest link and the easiest to control. It had nothing to do if he were gay or not.I agree with you that they are making all these speculations regarding people's sexuality with little or no evidence. Like you, I have nothing against gays. However, if 500 years from now somebody wanted to portray me as a homosexual, it would aggravate me because I am not one. They really should stick to the historical facts regarding these people. As for George Boleyn, just because he didn't like his wife doesn't automatically mean he was gay. It was an arranged marriage, and most of us agree that Jane Boleyn was not an easy woman to love. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 lettice |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 25 2008, 11:12 AM EDT "I have too agree with Boudica and Ms Squirrly , George was not gay and as far as I know he was married too Jane Parker ,Where is she at in the show we have not seen her yet and she plays a big part in undoing of Anne and her brother,since she hated Anne and George being so close. I guess the gay thing is because some viewers are gay and want to see representation of the homosexuality that could have been , I agree that it was looked at as a sin to be gay ,but of couse so was having a child out of wedlock and Anne and Henry did that so anything goes I don't care, I just am wondering when Jane parker will show up. And when did Brandon have a son?"Good question about Brandon. As he was married 4 times! He did have 3 with Mary, Henry's sister and I believe some by his earlier marriages. Homosexuality (not that there's anything wrong with it!), is portrayed in the relationship with Tallis & Comptom as well as Smeaton and Boleyn, with no grounds! It makes for better drama, but I think the true story is dramatic enough. What say all of you? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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miller-pvkk |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 25 2008, 10:07 PM EDT " I just am wondering when Jane parker will show up. And when did Brandon have a son?"I've been wondering where Jane is also. Regarding Brandon's son, a very informative person on another thread (actually, it was Holly2) told me that he and Mary Tudor had one son, who died. Then, he had more sons with subsequent wives. I know the series doesn't make that very clear. The son just pops up in that one episode. It's especially confusing because of they married Brandon to the wrong sister in the first season. Do you find this valuable? |
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Holly2 |
RE: Smeaton accused and executed for having affair with the wrong Boleyn!
Apr 27 2008, 1:27 PM EDT "I've been wondering where Jane is also. Regarding Brandon's son, a very informative person on another thread (actually, it was Holly2) told me that he and Mary Tudor had one son, who died. Then, he had more sons with subsequent wives.I think Princess Margaret was only called Margaret because they already had a Princess Mary. Historically, Princess Mary Tudor (Senior) and Brandon had three children, but since we've only seen the boy and since only he was mentioned when Brandon said that he was remarrying to provide his son with a mother, maybe Frances and Eleanor Brandon don't exist on the show. Jane Parker may have been removed for the sake of simplifying the story - that, or George is suddenly going to have a wife that has never been seen or mentioned before. Do you find this valuable? |