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aragon77 |
82. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jun 12 2008, 3:48 PM EDT
"Ooh, I definitely love Ives' book. When it comes to historiography, I prefer Ives to Denny, too, a lot because of the religious cliches mentioned above. Ives is a force in Anne Boleyn literature, and his article pieces on her place in reformation history are great reads, if you are interested. :-D"Did I tell you I finished the OBG last night it was a complete mess. I know this did not do a good job at the box office. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
LNor19 |
83. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jun 12 2008, 11:06 PM EDT
"I don't think the little person was Mary Grey (I think she was a huntch back rather than "dwarf") or a wierd gimmick. Both Mary and Elizabeth (there's one in Elizabeth: the Golden Age as well) had "royal dwarfs", little persons dressed in clothing of their ladies and gentlemen in waiting who were basically there for amusement purposes, many of them were "fools" or jesters as well. It was actually pretty common in European courts to have "royal dwarfs" as harsh as it sounds."Thanks for clearing that up for me...I was beyond confused when I saw that. I recall reading that Mary Grey was 4'2 because of her deformity, so at first I thought the film was perhaps using her in Mary's court. Do you find this valuable? |
LarsRune |
84. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jul 23 2008, 8:47 AM EDT
"Yes, Katherine had her last miscarriage in 1526 and it became obvious that she would have no more children. So after that Henry realised he had all the heirs he was ever going to have with her. Time to look elsewhere. So to all intents and purposes the marriage was over."What, she was pregnant in 1526? I thought her last pregnancy was in 1518. Guess the self-proclaimed KofA expert should read/study her some more. I agree Sarah gives a stunner performance. Can never forget her verbal fight with Anne B. I so need to have Tudor season with Sarah as the Bloody Mary. PS. I say expert jokingly. Do you find this valuable? |
Boudica |
85. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jul 23 2008, 10:20 AM EDT
If you look at our timeline ( http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Timeline ) it does say the last recorded / known miscarriage was November 1518. The timeline also says Henry and Katherine stopped sharring the same bed in 1524 (in a conjugal sense) because Katherine was past the age of childbearing. I don't think MsSquirley ever claimed be a KoA expert, or any user on this wiki for that matter. It was probably a mistake or typo on her part. Do you find this valuable? |
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LarsRune |
86. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jul 23 2008, 10:42 AM EDT
"If you look at our timeline ( http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/The+Tudors+Timeline ) it does say the last recorded / known miscarriage was November 1518. The timeline also says Henry and Katherine stopped sharring the same bed in 1524 (in a conjugal sense) because Katherine was past the age of childbearing.I'm not saying she made a mistake, I was just surprised. And I never meant to accuse anyone but myself as being a KofA expert, I meant I should read/study more. While studying English history, I focused on the Tudors and wrote my final "essay/master" on Katherine of Aragon. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
MsSquirrly |
87. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Jul 23 2008, 11:00 AM EDT
I absolutely did make a mistake when I said 1526.....you are right LarsRune, the last miscarriage was 1518 and after they had some doctors to attend her ...by 1524, it was obvious that she was not going to have any more children and Henry stopped sharing her bed. So really by 1526 their marriage was to all intents and purposes over.Also on a side note: Its interesting that I have found several historians have mistakenly used 1518 as Mary's birthdate instead of 1516. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
sherrilina |
88. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Aug 28 2008, 2:43 PM EDT
"Kudos DarkLadyWitch11. I think she'll bring something new to the table we desperately need - a fresh, more honest portrayl of Mary (hopefully!). Plus, there have been so few portrayls of Mary in her YOUTH. The only one that comes to mind is Alison Frazer in "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" with Keith Michell. (Watch clips here on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr7b7eKV0Xw ) From what I saw, it was a good attempt. Frazer made Mary out to be a pretty, confused, frightened but weaker willed than her mother the late Queen Katherine, and from what I've read that seems to have been accurate. But I hope Sarah Bolger gets to show some of Mary's firey side when she stands up to Anne Boleyn (hopefully they'll show that in The Tudors)."I don't know what you've read, but young Mary certainly wasn't all that "weaker-willed' than her mother--she had just as much mettle and pride and determination, which I thought Sarah pulled off beautifully. I agree though that there have been far too few portrayals of Mary in her youth, which is why I have been so excited to see her included on the show as both a child and a teen--usually no one ever shows her going to live in Eliz's household, etc, which is a shame. Of course it'd be even more perfect if they could cast someone with the right hair color, but since pretty much EVERYONE (from Catherine to Henry to Elizabeth) has the wrong hair color on the show, it's not too much of a surprise....:p In any case, well done Bolger! I can't wait to see more of you next season.... Do you find this valuable? |
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sherrilina |
89. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Aug 28 2008, 2:49 PM EDT
"I got the impression that Anne was genuinely trying to be nice but circumstances being as they are, Mary isn't going to be in any mood to play along.....Historically, Anne seems to have made a genuine effort to reach out to Mary, but short of declaring that her marriage to Henry was invalid and that he had always been married to Katherine, there was really nothing she could say that Mary would want to hear."Anne could have been just trying to look better for Henry by playing nice with his daughter, or have just been asserting her power, wanting Mary to acknowledge her as queen--we don't know. I thought the show portrayed Anne a little too sympathetically concerning her relationship with Mary, by not including some of her worst comments about Mary, etc--I was relieved when she started ranting to George about killing Mary, I thought they'd totally not include any of that at first..... 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
coronation |
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Boudica |
91. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Aug 29 2008, 4:43 PM EDT
"I don't know what you've read, but young Mary certainly wasn't all that "weaker-willed' than her mother--she had just as much mettle and pride and determination, which I thought Sarah pulled off beautifully. I agree though that there have been far too few portrayals of Mary in her youth, which is why I have been so excited to see her included on the show as both a child and a teen--usually no one ever shows her going to live in Eliz's household, etc, which is a shame.If you look again at my sentence I was describing Alison Frazer's Mary and not making a sweeping generalization of the historical Mary Tudor. In Frazer's portrayl Mary is shown as weeker willed than Katherine of Aragon in that it showcases Mary's submission to her father's demands, which her mother had NEVER done and preferred to die in exile than submit. The episode even shows a saddened Mary praying to God and her mother for forgiveness and regretting she could not have held out longer. This is historically accuarate, Mary did submit to her father in a letter which can be read on this webpage: http://englishhistory.net/tudor/primary1.html . When I said "weeker willed" it wasn't by any means meant as a put-down of Mary. If anything I've always thought the submission showed a very human side of Mary. The letter was written a month after Anne Boleyn's execution, and although Mary would be regretful of ever acknowleging herself as a bastard, Mary probably reasoned that with her mother's adversary gone and a new, Catholic Queen consort, she was surely hopefull that her life would improve in exchange for her submission. In regards to her submission Mary didn't have the same courage as her mother, who is still remembered as the Queen who defied one of the most powerful absolutist monarchs ever till the very end of her life. Do you find this valuable? |
