Sign in or 
Share this
Boudica |
40. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 8 2008, 5:32 PM EDT
" Here is girl who was raised as a Princess and sole heir to the throne only to become a bastard while watching her mother being rejected by her father after 14 years of marriage."Longer than that, I think it was 23 years of marriage (1509 - 1533) Do you find this valuable? |
|
Boudica |
41. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 8 2008, 5:35 PM EDT
oh, then again if you minus the years he was trying to divorce her... is that what you were referring to lettice?
Do you find this valuable?
|
Ginalovestudors |
42. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 8 2008, 5:46 PM EDT
I agree with you she was very upset by what her father and Anne did to her Mother , I did read that she loved her little sister Eliazbeth in begining , only after Mary became Queen she began to dislike her sister and think that she was trying to take the throne from her, as we know Mary could have had eliazbeth killed , but did not even at the end of her life. So there was some love there for her I think. But yes The Great Matter had a effect on her.
Do you find this valuable?
|
sarahbolgerhater |
43. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 8 2008, 5:47 PM EDT
You think Mary Tudor's scenes will be put on YouTube?Do you find this valuable? |
lettice |
44. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 9 2008, 8:41 AM EDT
"oh, then again if you minus the years he was trying to divorce her... is that what you were referring to lettice?"Yes. I look at it as Henry claiming his marriage didn't exist, based on his conscious and Leviticus. Even so, I see your point. Henry began to separate from Catherine a bit later and their marriage was officially anulled by Cramner in 1533. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Boudica |
45. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 9 2008, 10:01 AM EDT
"Yes. I look at it as Henry claiming his marriage didn't exist, based on his conscious and Leviticus. Even so, I see your point. Henry began to separate from Catherine a bit later and their marriage was officially anulled by Cramner in 1533."Understandable, so you think the marriage "ended" in 1523/24? That seems a bit earlier than what I would say (1527/28), I'm curious as to why you believe it was earlier though, if you don't mind explaining. Do you find this valuable? |
|
Ginalovestudors |
46. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 10 2008, 7:43 AM EDT
I if am not mistaken there marriage ended in 1533, After Anne became pregnant ,and that spring Henry knew he had to have his marriage to Catherine over at the time he was married to two women and wanted the Great Matter to be done and over with forever. So it was not really over until 1533. I hope I anwer that right.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
lettice |
47. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 10 2008, 8:20 AM EDT
"Understandable, so you think the marriage "ended" in 1523/24? That seems a bit earlier than what I would say (1527/28), I'm curious as to why you believe it was earlier though, if you don't mind explaining."I stand corrected. It was more towards 1527/1528 when The Great Matter dominated. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
MsSquirrly |
48. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 10 2008, 8:27 AM EDT
Yes, Katherine had her last miscarriage in 1526 and it became obvious that she would have no more children. So after that Henry realised he had all the heirs he was ever going to have with her. Time to look elsewhere. So to all intents and purposes the marriage was over.
1
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
Boudica |
49. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 11:06 AM EDT
I think Sarah's doing a good job so far. I especially loved her in this scene with Anne Boleyn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHazKBmu9B8I thought it was strange that although Anne said she came "in kindness" she was talking to Mary as if she was a stupid child, and I laughed when Mary traded Anne's barb for a barb of her own (but I like how Sarah delievered hers more than Natalie, Natalie came off as a condescending bitch while Sarah, to me atleast, came off a bit more even in tone but her words were definately more harsh) What do you all think? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
SemperEadem |
50. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 1:25 PM EDT
"I think Sarah's doing a good job so far. I especially loved her in this scene with Anne Boleyn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHazKBmu9B8Sarah is doing a GREAT job, and that scene is fantastic. I kind of can't help but think that it is purposeful that Natalie came off as a condescending bitch; I'm somewhat suprised they haven't made her into even more of one when Mary is around since she was supposed to have been absolutely awful to her. Mary is her father's daughter, but more importantly, I think we forget she was foremost her mother's daughter, and shared the same strong-willed determination. Nice touch with Elizabeth crying loudly at the end of that scene too...she'll have a lot more to cry about later... 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Boudica |
51. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 3:14 PM EDT
"I kind of can't help but think that it is purposeful that Natalie came off as a condescending bitch; I'm somewhat suprised they haven't made her into even more of one when Mary is around since she was supposed to have been absolutely awful to her. "Oh I think it's definately purposeful and acurate the way these two actresses are portraying their characters. To me, the conflict between AB and Mary was like watching two people repeatedly slaming their heads against a brick wall, they never really got any where with their battles but they did have legitimate sentiments. In my opinion neither of them was the ugly step mother / daughter, but rather it was Henry's fault for putting Mary in a situation that pitted her against Anne and Elizabeth. Do you find this valuable? |
|
sarahbolgerhater |
52. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 3:19 PM EDT
I honestly haven't been too impressed with Sarah. I'm actually surprised. Judging by the reviews she got for it, I thought she'd be much better.Maybe she'll get better in upcoming episodes. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
Holly2 |
53. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 3:31 PM EDT
"I kind of can't help but think that it is purposeful that Natalie came off as a condescending bitch; I'm somewhat suprised they haven't made her into even more of one when Mary is around since she was supposed to have been absolutely awful to her."I got the impression that Anne was genuinely trying to be nice but circumstances being as they are, Mary isn't going to be in any mood to play along. From where Anne is standing, Henry's marriage to Katherine has been annulled. She is Queen, and baby Elizabeth is the Princess. It sucks for Mary that she's not a princess anymore, but she needs to accept the way things are, and Anne is offering to meet her halfway. It certainly won't hurt her cause if Mary accepts her as Queen, of course, but I don't think that's her sole motive. The way she sees it, she really is being kind and she's offering to help her by welcoming Mary back to court. From where Mary is standing, her mother is the Queen, she is the rightful heir to the throne and Anne and Elizabeth are usurping their respective positions and rights. As a result, any offer Anne makes is going to come across as a mockery. Mary is never going to accept because she sees it as a betrayal of her mother. Historically, Anne seems to have made a genuine effort to reach out to Mary, but short of declaring that her marriage to Henry was invalid and that he had always been married to Katherine, there was really nothing she could say that Mary would want to hear. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Boudica |
54. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 3:53 PM EDT
For the record, although Anne did reach out (in her own way) to Mary, Anne also mistreated her step daughter as much as Mary mistreated her. There are contemporary sources that say Anne called Mary a "curst bastard", wished her poisoned, and even slapped her in the face when she got particularly saucy. Although I agree with the "half way" approach, it's hard to expect that from a step child when the step parent resorts to childish behavior on their part.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
Holly2 |
55. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 4:20 PM EDT
"For the record, although Anne did reach out (in her own way) to Mary, Anne also mistreated her step daughter as much as Mary mistreated her. There are contemporary sources that say Anne called Mary a "curst bastard", wished her poisoned, and even slapped her in the face when she got particularly saucy. Although I agree with the "half way" approach, it's hard to expect that from a step child when the step parent resorts to childish behavior on their part."By "contemporary sources", do you mean Ambassador Chapuys? He seems to have been the one to start the rumour about Anne wanting to poison Mary (and Katherine) but I'd take that, and a lot of what he said, with a grain of salt - for one thing, Anne was clever enough to know that if either of them died by poisoning, she'd top the list of suspects. For another, Mary was still Henry's daughter and I can't see him being happy with Anne if she went further in terms of mistreating Mary than he had gone. I think that Joanna Denny's biography of Anne is probably closest to truth as far as Anne and Mary's relationship was concerned. Anne seems to have made an attempt at a reconciliation a few times and got nowhere, then gave up before trying once more after Katherine had died, during her last pregnancy. She was no saint, I doubt that she went out of her way to improve Mary's lot, but I'd say that she was more tactless than cruel. 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
aragon77 |
56. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 4:27 PM EDT
His conscious and pulling material out of the bible was an excuse to get what he wanted (divorce). Contradiction to himself, on one hand he did quote out of leviticus, but then he killed men of the cloth "cleregy".
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
Boudica |
57. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 4:28 PM EDT
Actually, I said Anne "wished" her poisoned, not poisoned her (that's actually from Chapyus who thought the poisoning of the English ambassador to Spain was a botched attempt on Princess Mary, which I don't believe in). Anne Boleyn had made many hot headed statements in her life time that got taken at face value that should have, one of them was the poisoning of lady Mary, the other was wishing "all the Spanish to the bottom of the sea". Joanna Denny's biography is also extremely biased, particurly against catholics, which is why I couldn't finish it, so I'd take that into consideration also. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
aragon77 |
|
|
Boudica |
59. RE: Hello "lady" mary!
Apr 22 2008, 4:34 PM EDT
"Anne Boleyn had made many hot headed statements in her life time that got taken at face value that should have, one of them was the poisoning of lady Mary, the other was wishing "all the Spanish to the bottom of the sea". "Sorry, I meant to say "shouldn't have". :) Here's a review that contrast Denny's book on Anne to Eric Ives (who I much prefer) http://www.atlantisjournal.org/Papers/29_1/PdePando.pdf "Mary, Catherine’s daughter, is portrayed as histrionic, childish and stubborn; she is said to be full of fears for her safety and well-being, which Denny rejects as unsubstantiated, although they proved real according to historical evidence (see Starkey 2004: 443-445, 515-522).Probably the most unconvincing feature of Denny’s book is her startling perpetuation of religious clichés. All Catholics are evil and plotting, and all Protestants are saintly and unjustly persecuted...." 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
