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Location: Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
Discussion: I dislike his real person
Keyword tags:
anne boleyn
charles brandon
gabrielle anwar
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 jamais.de.fin_boleyn |
I dislike his real person
Jan 22 2008, 8:46 PM EST Some historians & authors say it is this mans fault both his neices were beheaded because of his desire to have a Howard on the throne... If it's true then i hate him. He played his neices (Anne Boleynm Katherine Howard, Mary Boleyn, Jane Rockford) like stupid worthless pawns & steps on stairs. YUCKY! I'm glad women have more power now & are not considered to be just for family advancement. Thank god the man finally died. I hate how he used Anne especially. 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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6fatallifes 6fatallifes |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 2 2008, 7:16 PM EST I agree it was both fault both his nieces were beheaded. But it was said that Ann got what she desereved because she didn't listen to her ole' uncle Howard, that she thought she was better than him because she was queen of only 2 years and he was Duke and the Kings consort for about 15 years before she was born. They were said to be in alot of fights and when it came down to Ann's beheading, he didn't bother to lift a finger because "she was better than him" Katherine for him...was said just to be a total mess of a queen, she was a waste of his time. 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jamais.de.fin_boleyn |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 2 2008, 8:50 PM EST umm... well he wasnt Anne's keeper! She could do whatever she wanted! Men dont rule the world here! Women are just as good! So why should she take orders from him? She WAS the queen, a higher place then he had... it may be true that he held his position for 15 yrs.. but she was the queen, she must have done SOMETHING right. Who cares if she didnt listen to him! I think it was jerky of him to just stand aside & let her die! She was a wonderful woman & it was horrid how he treated her. I think it is morally wrong to let your neice go to the block without even a second thought. 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
 LadyBritni |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 6:37 AM EST In those days yes he was her keeper. He had power over her. He was the head of her family, above her father. And even as Queen she still had to address him with the due respect. What is horrid to us was not to them. Women were pawns and things for sex they could not do whatever they wanted. Plain and simple. And Anne Boleyn Was not that great of a person, personality wise. It is easy to make her out to be the victim because we all know the accusations were false, but personality wise, Anne was a Bitch and she wasn't at all the Beauty that Natalie Dormer makes her appear to be. The Real Anne Boleyn was a Charmer, which is how the accusation of witchcraft came from. 2 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jamais.de.fin_boleyn |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 11:14 AM EST umm... NO sweetie. Have you seen portriats of Anne? I think she was beautiful. I dont care if you feel that women were used as pawns, that may be true but we know it was totally out of line! So why, may i ask, do you encourage this horrid notion? If he ACTED like he was her keeper he was wrong. She should have been a wondorous woman in her own right. Anne was NOT a bitch & you are out of line if you say so. She had ambition & she got what she wanted because she was worth it. She had more respect then any before her. She was crowned in St. Peter's cahir where only kings were crowned because it was her will. No other queen was cornated with a higher honor. She was a Marquess! She had great titles & accomplished awesome things & us woman should repect her & admire her for advancing woman! She got a lot of respect & we should be proud of her. If you think shes a bitch why the hell do you have the signature "B" necklace as your image??? She may have been a charmer, and all the power to her! She used her talent to get far in life. GO ANNE BOLEYN! 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
 DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 12:27 PM EST Ok people lets not get into another fight, I already got into one, FIRST - yes anne WAS NOT THAT GREAT BEAUTY AS HER SISTER OR CAT, BUT she was beautiful, nobody said she was ugly She was A DARKBEAUTY, SOMETHING OF A MYSTERY SECOND- Perhpas Howard was the keepter, but he was not above her father, Anne had her faults, true but so did Howards, everybody had their faults WE ARE NOT PERFECT, NOBODY IS, IF ANNE WAS PERFECT I WOULD CALL HER SAINT, SHE WAS NOT A BITCH, YES SHE HAD A VERY HARD ATTITUDE, THE ATTITUDE WE CALL AMBITION. I admire anne, I dont favor her but many times I do, perhaps no more then catalina de aragon, but I admire anne cuz of her ambition. and besides we all have mistakes, thomas howards did not care about everybody, in the end it was like he wanted to becom the one who ruled instead. Anne never had anything to do with witchcraft, as for the charmer thing, Anne was witty, a charmer for her to be would be stupid, anne was a very witty, ambitious, calculating person, SHE WAS NOT UGLY, she is nevery mention before her trial to be as such. Anne was a good player, an intelligent ambitious person. she was clever but she was not a bitch or a charmer, actually the charmer was mary. anne was a clever person, a charmer would be a person that would trap a man and then leave like any other concubine or low courtesan would, like her sister Mary. Anne was different in this, she played big, and her ambition was big, it was not of a charmer, to compare her with such is to put her low like her sister mary. This si anne boleyn we are talking about, the girl who reached to high , not about a lowly courtesan, now as for the portraits. Jamais de fin boleyn is right, she was NOT UGLy, she was not the great beauty, but she was beautiful, she was just a different kind of beauty, since many of the girls at court were either blod or yello/red headed, she was a total kind of beauty, different, a dakr beauty who was beautiful. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 12:33 PM EST Many people have siad anne was horrible, in beauty,anne was not horrible but people think that because she was not blond and not red haird, besides do you have to have creamy white skin or blond hair to be beautiful? No Anne was beautiful just that she was not the standard of beauty in those times, and maybe today. But she was, she was a dark beauty, who was ambitious and played high, and very ambitious. and you ahve to admire that. so if you say she was ugly, then I am sorry but you are contribuing to the standards of society that say that to be pretty you have to have light creamy skin, blod/red/light/brown haird, Anne defied all these standards A dark beauty who won above all courtesans, dont compare her with a charmer, she was above that. the charmer was mary. 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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LadyBritni |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 3:43 PM EST Yes, I have seen Portraits of her. Our tolerance for Beauty is different. then what it was. I don't feel that women Were pawns. The WERE. Back in those times Women were pawns. Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves are good examples. They were USED to forge alliances. Look at History not me. And yes, he was higher above her father. He was the head of the family. The Howard family was around for along time. The Boleyns were up starts that married very well If you are basing your information Souling on the Tudors, you are mistaken, I think if you want to really want to get a good insight into her actual Character, go read The Other Boleyn Girl, Or better yet go watch it. its coming out soon. Anne's Character was not of the nicest. yes Bitch may have been extreme but with Anne anything less then extreme would be insulting. But please don't let me tell you otherwise, go look at History. As to why I have the B. Well I am Lady Britni after all. In all seriousness, I am a HUGE admirer. You can not find any other person in History that did and accomplished as much as Anne. And technically she succeeded in the one thing Henry wanted most. Through Elizabeth Henry got his Golden Son. One of history's Irons for you. I would like to quote a previous statement. "she wasn't at all the Beauty that Natalie Dormer makes her appear to be" I never said anywhere that she was ugly. I said that the ACTRESS was more BEAUTIFUL then the ACTUAL person. So Do Drop that already. 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 5:15 PM EST Actually Lady Britnei or whatever, mmm Anne Boleyn started as a pawn to,Katherine of aragon might have started as a pawn but then moved out and took destiny in her own Hand LIKE ANNE. Anne of Cleves, may have been a pawn to, but at least she took destiny to be the religion she wanted, catholic, divorce Hnery and leave in a relative more forced peace then with Henry or in Cleves. Anne Boleyn and catheirne of aragon are more alike then you think. BOTH STARTED as pawn, THEN TOOK DESTINY INTO THEIR OWN. They made ytheir own destiny and that is what I admire They challenged. I am not basing more on The Tudors, HON, You have a person here who since kindergarden learned about the tudors, gerw with history, lives in history reads And although I love the other boleyn girl, and yes I admit she may not have been the nicest I admire her for her admiration, she was not a charmer, she was more than that, she was clever. But the other boleyn girl does not put mary as a wanton, which in reality although Mary might have suffered because of Howard and Boleyn manipulation, and MAYBE at some point by Anne Boleyn, since she did step on others, (so did Catheinre) Mary slept with her fair share the book does not mention she slept with King Francis he even called her her english mare. Dont tell me other wise I have read history, I live in History, I know everything Nok I dont know everything, ecause if I claimes to know everything then I would not do more research, history is based on point of views, although history itself is neutral, what happened happened. I only know I only know I dont know I am willing to know more reasearch not be bias neutral And oh go read jean plaidy or better yet, if you like neutrality why dont read antonia frasier's the six wives of henry VIII I bet you will enjoy it. 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 5:17 PM EST nice try 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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LadyBritni |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 5:50 PM EST You for being the cocky person you are seem to be missing the point. Women were pawns. Yes, we have these women who did take destiny into their own hands. But look where it got them. One died alone, and the other lost her head. And no Anne of Cleves did NOT divorce the King. He divorced her and went with that hand that was dealt her. For someone growing up on history I thought you would have been able to atleast see that. And its evident that YOU did not base your opions souly on the show. I was speaking of jamais.de.fin_boleyn. Do you find this valuable? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 9:08 PM EST Cockey who is being cockey you are being the cockey one for assuming to know of history more then tend to spend your life in reading Only those who claim to know everything for reading one book then those are who know all, but at the same time reject everything. Those like us, who are willing to admit with the balls to say "I onlyKnow I know nothing" then we are willing to learn. I am sorry but is the only way, maybe. Nobody said they were not pawns, I only said they started. You were the cocky one, I mean how much is it to ask, hey girl daraldy do you know history? No, to much sorry I mean hello, before assuming, and I think that you WANT me to see that why? because Oh my God I willd ie if I dont NOOOO!! you are narrowed to think that your point of view if I dont see it like you I dont know I dont know therefore I know I have to know You know, and by thinking you know you see everything or everything as fact that you are right, or you will say it is because what you see is so evident, or put in more fashion words, but hon, the world revolves around opinions, if you think lesser of other by not thining like you then sorry Hon, you are the intelligent one, since you know everything or know that your evidcence is right poor all of us. bye 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jamais.de.fin_boleyn |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 3 2008, 10:19 PM EST Umm... no idiot. The Other Boleyn Girl is a FICTIONAL book. DUH. it is a good read but not very true. Anne was innocent of the charges & not a bitch. She was ambitious. get that through your thick skull. Dark Lady Witch is so right. YOU, hon are being the cocky, stupid one. If you are just basing your words on the other boleyn girl.. then go read a nonfiction NEUTRAL she is right. now go away & stop being so annoying & cocky. you should come back after you read the HISTORICAL FACTS. duh. && who cares if women were pawns??? Anne & Catherine (Aragon) went passed that pawn stage & became great... every1 will die.. who cares how! they got far in life because they defied stupid men. & stop calling Dark LAdy Witch cocky.. what the hell did she do that was so? 1 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 4 2008, 1:03 AM EST Thanks jamais fin boleyn right on girl!! I only know that I dont know Socrates said that, an example some people dont like to take. so back to the matter in question hey jamais fin boleyn did you know thomas howrad the duke had a scandal with maid bess holland, mm no different than the men of his time huh? Poor wifes, he was married twice but did he really love them? No Poor wives, I mean they could practically not stood up or ask for a divorce since he almost had more influence or was more domination then them, although the affair made his wife angry and for the first time he did not have the upper hand to not avoid his wife's strangement, his son the poet died, I dont know if it could have hurt, but I would like to think that there was a part of him human humanity His grandson, and greatgrandson, well the latter was a martir for Catholic Faith in Elizabeth reign, but his grandson Thomas Howard the 4th Duke of Norfolk practically betrayed elziabeth I guess family huh? Howard, the 3rd was just to convenient he played only on interest to bad 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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LadyBritni |
RE: I dislike his real person
Feb 4 2008, 2:32 AM EST Hon? First off its Hun. Hon looks and sounds like half a car horn. Honk Honk. Second, Both of you are fighting a battle with me over History. Something that if you actually looked up would show exactly what I am saying. But Darklady would know all about History, having been reading history books since kindergarten. Both of you Jumped down my throat for saying that Anne Boleyn Was a Bitch. And she was. I never said she was not Ambitious. I said she was a charmer. Yes she Charmed everyone. Not a sorceress. The reference to the Witchcraft accusation was that she was so charming, the whole court feel in love with her with and intellect despite not having the the look of what was considered beautiful. I said She was a Bitch and a Pawn in her Uncles game. You two have to retaliate with she was not a bitch or a pawn. Yes she was. In the beginning she was a pawn and truly she never did stop being a pawn. Her family was rewarded for her being Queen. Her being Queen advanced the Howard/Boleyn Family to the highest point possible. Howard Used her till the very end. As for the Other Boleyn Girl. Well no shits its a Fictional book. I said it was the best book that really gave a good insight into Anne Boleyn's True Character. 0 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Shadow_in_the_Sun |
RE: I dislike his real person
Mar 5 2008, 2:06 PM EST This thread is completely ridiculous. You guys are arguing and calling eachother idiots over something you cannot prove unless you were there. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of a historical character. You lot squabbling over it is totally pointless. Anyway, back on topic! It is true that Thomas Howard was an abominable man by today's standards... but I cannot help but be utterly fascinated with him. For someone involved in so much intrigue in the Tudor court, the uncle of two Queen consorts and who helped machinate their rises and falls... and he died in his bed, with his head still on his neck. Just incredible. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 MsSquirrly |
RE: I dislike his real person
Mar 5 2008, 2:38 PM EST "As for the Other Boleyn Girl. Well no shits its a Fictional book. I said it was the best book that really gave a good insight into Anne Boleyn's True Character.It is hardly the BEST book on Anne Boleyn's character since it is written by someone with a totally biased opinion. You would be much better served to read Eric Ives : "Life and Death of Anne Boleyn" since it is written by a credible historian who has give both sides to Anne's character. He doesn't sugar coat her but he also doesn't vilify her for her faults. As for Howard, Shadow_in_the_Sun said it all. He was the master of intrigue and always managed to cover his butt....and keep his head LOL. I agree he wasn't likable when you see how he used his family to get ahead but he must have been very charming and convincing to his contemporaries. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 melaniej65 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Mar 5 2008, 4:44 PM EST I cannot believe that this thread has degenerated into ugly name calling! This is all about exchanging information and opinions and to swear at someone because you do not agree is childish and ignorant-I thought we were above that type of behavior! I have spent my entire life admiring history (especially the role of women in history), and I do know that I posess a little more than just a basic education in History, so I am fairly confident-especially since there are things that we will never KNOW for certain. We base our opinions on the written OPINIONS of others-some who were certainly NOT comtemporaries of those under discussion. History is actually very fluid-often 'facts' change with the times, and when new discoveries demand that we revise what we were certain that we "knew". Can we not behave as adults who share a common admiration for a certain time in History? Melanie Do you find this valuable? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Mar 5 2008, 6:38 PM EST Deat shwos in the sun, the brigthness in us, how can we be fighting we are merely arguing, discussing if you like. not anything wrong is there. since when taking your opinion to point mattered? anyway an announcement for you all since you have all been a kind croud, thanks lettice, jamais fin boleyn, mrs galloway and katherin carey for your friendship and kindness friends to you all, please we would like well me and the association I am working for to donate money to women;s shelter, if you have the opportunity, please do so, the play is called vagina monologue in texas, the ticket is 10 dolloars, if it is shown on your city, go see it, it is so insghtful do not let the name fool you dears, it is a very good play and believe me you will not regret it,, the money if any of you ask goes directly to charity, for battered women, some of the money also goes to casa amigas in juarez where many women have been suffering because of homicide and many others.\ please if it is shown on your city, go, you wont regret it, and if you live close to El Paso tehn go see it, guys it is a for a good cause, and the play believe me you wont regret it. bye 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarkLadyWitch11 |
RE: I dislike his real person
Mar 5 2008, 6:42 PM EST Who has degenrate dear after all he who does not show neutrality or her who does not give opinion that he or she is no good thing or artifact at all, but enough about that. as you know the elections have been hectic and I encourage you all to vote, why am I saying this, oh some of you might think bad of me but dears, lately not many people have voted, while many have, not many as those who are registered, if elections will be in you country or state do early voting now is the time!! another thing, please go do some donation for shelter of women against violence, if you live close to El paso, go see the show vagina monologues, it is about women knowing their bodies and so insghtful you money goes to charity dears I promise anyway God Bless you and have a great weekend, the showtime are march 8 and 9 7pm and 2pm Do you find this valuable? |