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Mary Boleyn Controversies

Historical controversies about Mary Boleyn Click EasyEdit to edit/add this page! (Don't see the EasyEdit button above? Sign in or Sign up.)

Historical controversies about
Mary Boleyn

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Were Mary Boleyn's Children, Henry and Catherine Carey, really King Henry VIII's illegitimate children?

Were Mary Boleyn's Children, Henry and Catherine Carey, really King Henry VIII's illegitimate children?

The case FOR
An Article by Anthony Hoskins in Genealogy Magazine "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children — Offspring of King Henry VIII?" March 1997 who quotes: "Morever, Mr. Skydmore dyd show to me yongge Master Care, saying that he was our suffren Lord the Kynge’s son by our suffren Lady the Qwyen’s syster, whom the Qwyen’s grace might not suffer to be yn the Cowrte." — John Hale, vicar of Isleworth to the Council, 20 April 1535


The case AGAINST
Tudor Historian Eric Ives in his book, "The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn" (2005) when discussing Henry's sexual history says: " The evidence that Henry VIII had sexual problems is, first of all, circumstantial. Between 1509 and 1547 he is known , or can be presumed to have had sexual relations over some months or years with 8 women - that is, his 6 wives and his 2 known mistresses, Elizabeth Blount and Mary Boleyn. Only 4 of the 8 conceived, and we may note that the last time was at New Year 1537, when Henry's partners had a poor record of maternal success. Setting aside Jane Seymour, who died after the birth of her one child, only 3 pregnancies produced a healthy infant, one each for Katherine of Aragon, Elizabeth Blount and Anne Boleyn. There were other pregnancies that ended in miscarriage, stillbirth or neonatal death. Anne herself had 2 miscarriages -- that is, in two of her three known pregnancies. Katherine, her predecessor, had an even poorer record -- five failures in six, and over a much longer period. This case history raises the possibility that it was Henry and not his wives who was responsible for silence in the royal nursery. At a distance of some 500 years, deficiencies in fertility or genetic defects can be nothing more than suspicions, and he one thing which seems clear is that venereal disease was not to blame ( as is sometime suggested) . The King's medical history and the record of the medicines he was prescribed show quite clearly hat he was never treated for syphilis, unlike, for instance, Francis I, who was heavily infected. The leg ulcer which periodically darkened Henry's life from 1528, and is often assumed to be venereal, has been convincingly argued to be caused by osteomyelitis resulting from falls in the tiltyard. We have to take into account the health and fertility of the women concerned. There is the evidence about the difficulty of Anne's first pregnancy and the five years delay between her agreement to marry Henry and the commencement of sexual relations in 1532, when she was over thirty, must have lessened her chances of successfully having children. But all the women could not have been bad risks. There is nothing in the history of Katherine of Aragon's sisters to suggest a tendency to impaired childbearing; Mary Boleyn became pregnant as soon as she left Henry for her husband, William Carey; the same was true of [K] Catherine Parr, when she married Thomas Seymour after the King;s death in 1547."
Regarding the contemporary witness, John Hale who stated that Henry Carey was "the king's son", Eric Ives says: "Those at court in the forefront of the battle for the papal headship did their best to exploit such plebeian sentiments. When two of the Observant Friars on the run from Greenwich were asked whether Elizabeth had been christened in cold water or in hot water they replied, 'hot water, but it was not hot enough'. When the Blessed Richard Reynolds,'the most learned monk in England', went to the scaffold with the Carthusian Martyrs in May 1535, he took with him John Hale, a Cambridge Fellow and vicar of Isleworth in Middlesex, who was part of a cell which Reynolds had been feeding with gossip about the morals of the Boleyn Family and the falseness of Henry's claim to be supreme head. It was Hale that confessed that Mary Boleyn's son by William Carey had been pointed out to him as the king's son. The group also dabbled in cryptic prophecies that circulated in moments of crisis -- that a queen (Anne) would be burned, that Henry was the curse Mouldwarp prophesied by Merlin, and so forth". - This seems to indicate that John Hale had an ulterior motive for making his statement. He is also the ONLY person who ever said that Carey was Henry's child.
Another Tudor Historian Lady Antonia Fraser says: "Despite later rumours to the contrary, none of Mary's children was fathered by King Henry; her daughter Catherine Carey and her son Henry Carey, created Lord Hunsdon by his first cousin Queen Elizabeth, were born in 1524 and 1526 respectively when the affair was over. (We may be sure that Henry Carey would have been acclaimed with the same joy as Henry Fitzroy, if he had been the King's son.)

The case FOR

An Article by Anthony Hoskins in Genealogy Magazine "Mary Boleyn's Carey Children — Offspring of King Henry VIII?" March 1997

who quotes:
"Morever, Mr. Skydmore dyd show to me yongge Master Care, saying that he was our suffren Lord the Kynge’s son by our suffren Lady the Qwyen’s syster, whom the Qwyen’s grace might not suffer to be yn the Cowrte."
— John Hale, vicar of Isleworth to the Council, 20 April 1535

The case AGAINST

Tudor Historian Eric Ives in his book, "The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn" (2005) when discussing Henry's sexual history says:

" The evidence that Henry VIII had sexual problems is, first of all, circumstantial. Between 1509 and 1547 he is known , or can be presumed to have had sexual relations over some months or years with 8 women - that is, his 6 wives and his 2 known mistresses, Elizabeth Blount and Mary Boleyn. Only 4 of the 8 conceived, and we may note that the last time was at New Year 1537, when Henry's partners had a poor record of maternal success. Setting aside Jane Seymour, who died after the birth of her one child, only 3 pregnancies produced a healthy infant, one each for Katherine of Aragon, Elizabeth Blount and Anne Boleyn. There were other pregnancies that ended in miscarriage, stillbirth or neonatal death. Anne herself had 2 miscarriages -- that is, in two of her three known pregnancies. Katherine, her predecessor, had an even poorer record -- five failures in six, and over a much longer period.

This case history raises the possibility that it was Henry and not his wives who was responsible for silence in the royal nursery. At a distance of some 500 years, deficiencies in fertility or genetic defects can be nothing more than suspicions, and he one thing which seems clear is that venereal disease was not to blame ( as is sometime suggested) . The King's medical history and the record of the medicines he was prescribed show quite clearly hat he was never treated for syphilis, unlike, for instance, Francis I, who was heavily infected. The leg ulcer which periodically darkened Henry's life from 1528, and is often assumed to be venereal, has been convincingly argued to be caused by osteomyelitis resulting from falls in the tiltyard.

We have to take into account the health and fertility of the women concerned. There is the evidence about the difficulty of Anne's first pregnancy and the five years delay between her agreement to marry Henry and the commencement of sexual relations in 1532, when she was over thirty, must have lessened her chances of successfully having children. But all the women could not have been bad risks. There is nothing in the history of Katherine of Aragon's sisters to suggest a tendency to impaired childbearing; Mary Boleyn became pregnant as soon as she left Henry for her husband, William Carey; the same was true of [K] Catherine Parr, when she married Thomas Seymour after the King;s death in 1547."

Regarding the contemporary witness, John Hale who stated that Henry Carey was "the king's son", Eric Ives says:

"Those at court in the forefront of the battle for the papal headship did their best to exploit such plebeian sentiments. When two of the Observant Friars on the run from Greenwich were asked whether Elizabeth had been christened in cold water or in hot water they replied, 'hot water, but it was not hot enough'. When the Blessed Richard Reynolds,'the most learned monk in England', went to the scaffold with the Carthusian Martyrs in May 1535, he took with him John Hale, a Cambridge Fellow and vicar of Isleworth in Middlesex, who was part of a cell which Reynolds had been feeding with gossip about the morals of the Boleyn Family and the falseness of Henry's claim to be supreme head. It was Hale that confessed that Mary Boleyn's son by William Carey had been pointed out to him as the king's son. The group also dabbled in cryptic prophecies that circulated in moments of crisis -- that a queen (Anne) would be burned, that Henry was the curse Mouldwarp prophesied by Merlin, and so forth".

- This seems to indicate that John Hale had an ulterior motive for making his statement. He is also the ONLY person who ever said that Carey was Henry's child.

Another Tudor Historian Lady Antonia Fraser says:

"Despite later rumours to the contrary, none of Mary's children was fathered by King Henry; her daughter Catherine Carey and her son Henry Carey, created Lord Hunsdon by his first cousin Queen Elizabeth, were born in 1524 and 1526 respectively when the affair was over. (We may be sure that Henry Carey would have been acclaimed with the same joy as Henry Fitzroy, if he had been the King's son.)

Sources: Life and Death of Anne Boleyn by Eric Ives (2005) The Six Wives of Henry VIII by Antonia Fraser (2002)

Sources:

Life and Death of Anne Boleyn by Eric Ives (2005)
The Six Wives of Henry VIII by Antonia Fraser (2002)

MsSquirrly	Latest page update: made by MsSquirrly , Sep 23 2009, 7:35 PM EDT (about this update About This Update Edited by MsSquirrly view changes - complete history)
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