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"As I stated in another thread, I`m currently reading John Schofield`s biography of Thomas Cromwell, and have just finished reading about the fall of Anne Boleyn and her faction. I always assumed that the story about Smeaton`s torture with the knotted rope was true. Its` mentioned in several places, shown in just about every film adaptation of the period and really, took it at face value. However, according to the Schofield biography, the only evidence of this comes from the Spanish Chronicle, and isn`t mentioned anywhere else. The same Spanish Chronicle also claims Cromwell was pivotal in the downfall of Katherine Howard, that Anne of Cleves was Henry`s fifth wife and numerous other `howlers` (as Schofield calls them).
This is one of the key reasons why Cromwell has been portrayed as a blood stained monster for the last 500 years, and now it turns out it is almost certainly a fabrication. My mind is clean amazed, as Cranmer would say.
I`m sorry for starting a seemingly pointless thread about this, but its` a very interesting point, and something that needs to be taken into consideration before the vilification of Cromwell is continued."

There isn't definite proof that Mark was even tortured, never mind that Cromwell tortured him. It's assumed because of was of low-birth, which allowed him to be tortured, and because he was the only person who did confess, that he was most likely tortured. That, and Anne wouldn't have touched him with a bargepole given his low-born status, so it's assumed he gave a confession under duress, and assumed it was Cromwell who did it! Assumed, assumed, assumed! I'm not trying to whitewash Cromwell, i find people like him and Mary interesting for their faults, moreso than their assets. They're complicated, difficult to figure out, and they're all the more interesting for it! But i do think both have been unfairly villified!

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Six Wives was definitely better. They went for substance rather than just style. For each of the wives though: I would have to go with Annette wins for Katherine, Natalie for Anne, tie for Jane(although I liked that Jane felt bad for Anne in The Six Wives and didnt want to be the cause of her death)....Elvi for Anne of Cleves only because she had a great personality; and obviously cant judge the others.
Keith is definitely the better Henry VIII. The man just became Henry and exuded so much, power and strentgh, Jonathan just tries to hard and doesnt come off as a king.

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"Lady Jane (with Helena Bonham-Carter, I have not seen this yet)

I have seen this film and it's very good."

It`s on youtube, albeit in 10 minute segments, but the whole film is there. Well worth a look.

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"I'm reading the novel "Threads". It is so good. I'm really caught up in the storyline.



"

I haven't heard of it. I can always google it, but that's kind of boring, I'd love to see what you think of it first!

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"He takes in a young boy who's family wants him to go into Cromwell's care as an apprentice. The boy is Rafe Sadler, who will one day become Cromwell's most efficient clerk. Rafe is pawned off onto Cromwell when he is only 7 years old. He grows up in the Cromwell household and is probably closer to Crom than his own son, Gregory.

The parts of the book I loved the most are the ones dealing with Cromwell's household. It's a happy place full of life and people young and old that truly care for one another.

"

I borrowed 'Wolf Hall' from a friend, who has traced her husband's ancestry back to Rafe (or Ralph) Sadler. Sadler later became Elizabeth the First's ambassador to the court of Mary Queen of Scots.

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lol=]] its pretty new if that helps any

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Sorry if I seemed snappy when I said `i`im entitled to my opinions` earlier, its just i`m forever being brow-beaten by More fanatics with scary, slavish devotion to the man when posting on various Tudor history boards. That doesn`t justify my defensiveness here though, so I am sorry for that.
You say you`re not going to read Wolf Hall because it `clashes very greatly with how I view Thomas More`. Forgive me, LNor19, is that not what all good fiction should do? Challenge your perceptions, as well as re-inforce others? I feel you should, not just because it`s a beautifully written piece (Mantel is supremely gifted), but because we should all be open to other influences, open to change and willing to take on board the view points of others.
Thomas More may well have been a man of his time, but so was Cardinal Wolsey, who was content to send heretics into exile, rather than burn them. And he a Cardinal of the Catholic Church (More was simply a Layman). I`ve just said on another thread here, that people always put More on a pedestal and revere him as this paragon of virtue. Really, its not that simple. Yes, the torture allegations were exactly that, and I used the term in my other post. However, the two whippings are believed to have taken place (one was Dick Purser, a servant in More`s household who was found to have Lutheran sympathies, and I forget the other). That, too me, is just another form of torture.

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"ooooh the Eric Ives bio sounds good,do you know when its comming out?

Eric Ives's book on Anne Boleyn "The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn" is my favorite book its quite hard going in some places but definetly worth a read."

October 19th. There's more about it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Jane-Grey-Tudor-Mystery/dp/1405194138/ref=cm_lmf_tit_25

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Oops sorry about that....I had put it in the title but didn't realize that it cut it off.

The book is Non-Fiction and is written by Robert Hutchinson

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Thank you!
Oh, and Welocme!!!

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