Thread started: Feb 28 2009, 12:20 PM EST
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Do y'all think Anne would have gone to the scaffold had it not been for Cromwell? Or do you think Henry still would have resorted to killing her anyway? Or would she have gone to a nunnery? It is true that Henry wanted rid of her, but many theories suggest that Cromwell sensed the king's displeasure with Anne and used it to move against her...that he took it upon himself to trump up charges, and only when he had enough so-called evidence, did he bring it to Henry. Thereby, shocking the king with evidence of his wife's infidelities, and angering him to the point that he wanted her dead. I don't buy this theory, as it puts all the blame on Cromwell, and, once again, makes Henry look like a weakling being used by his own servnt...either that or a not very capable ruler. I think it played out in real life much the way the series portrayed it. Cromwell was wanting an opportunity to get rid of Anne, who'd become a liability to him and his cause. So, yes, he was just looking for the right moment to move against her. Henry's order to investigate the queen was a dream come true for Cromwell, and he did use it to his advantage. But, imo, it was the kings wishes that ultimately killed Anne. I don't think Cromwell, even as powerful as he was, would have felt confident enough to take it upon himself to move against Anne had not the king asked him to.
Thoughts anyone?
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RE: Cromwell's part in Anne's fall
By: ,
Apr 26 2009, 9:38 AM EDT
Hello S&B,
This is an interesting question that you pose. Imo, Henry was tired of Anne by the time Bess was born, but he didn't want to look like a fool in front of the world, so he allowed the marriage to continue in hopes of a son. Anne's position was precarious especially after two miscarriages. As far as I know, Cromwell and Anne were friendly in the beginning, but Crum, ever the King's man, saw Henry's disillusionment w/Anne as time went on and knew how Henry felt about his wife. Crum may have been seeking 'evidence' during Anne's last pregnancy but was told off by his king that if Anne had a boy she needed to be above reproach. I know the sitch w/Anne and Crum became tense and she knew he was seeking ways to discredit her w/Henry, so I believe there was a great falling-out between them. But that wasn't enough for him to just go find evidence. He had to have had Henry's command after Anne's miscarriage to find evidence against her. And yes, Henry would have had her put to death. He wanted no cries of Adulterer and no legitimacy questions if Jane had a child. He wanted the slate wiped clean. Anne alive while he married Jane would have caused too much of an uproar in Europe. So Henry had to crush her once and for all. Finding evidence was Crum's job because the King told him to find it. I really enjoy Frain's portrayal of Cromwell. He gives the character a lot of human emotions whereas others have portrayed him as cold and callus. Frain's Crum makes me actually pity him knowing what's going to happen after his faux pas w/Anne of Cleves. We saw how sad he was when both Anne and Moore were beheaded, something I've never seen done by any other actor who played that role. I like this Crum better than any I've ever seen or read about. Neill & Frain, the best Wolsey and Crum I've ever seen done!!
Peace,
ETR
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